Changes to Triple Crown?

[km]

About 20 years ago, D.Wayne Lukas of all people, proposed changes to the Triple Crown -->

= Another week between each of the races
= Reduce the Belmont Stakes to 1 1/4 miles
= Reduce weight carried in each race from 126 to 122 (119 fillies)

I think those are very sensible changes that would not alter anything in terms of the Derby, except the weight carried, another week off for the Preakness wouldn't matter to anyone, including Pimlico, and the Belmont would be less of burden.

I know there are purists who don't want to change anything so that when we do have a Triple Crown winner it will be bonafide equal to previous great champions. But we need to lower the bar just a tad to give a horse a realistic shot these days.

[tbrown]

I can't agree.
We have not had a triple crown winner in 30 years for a very good reason - none have deserved it. I'd rather marvel at the magnificent 11 than "dumb it down" for the lessers.
Champions rise to the occasion, not have the occasion stoop down for them.

The Breeder's Cup has already been diluted enough to crown phony champions based on one race.

[DanG]

About 20 years ago, D.Wayne Lukas of all people, proposed changes to the Triple Crown -->

= Another week between each of the races
= Reduce the Belmont Stakes to 1 1/4 miles
= Reduce weight carried in each race from 126 to 122 (119 fillies)

I think those are very sensible changes that would not alter anything in terms of the Derby, except the weight carried, another week off for the Preakness wouldn't matter to anyone, including Pimlico, and the Belmont would be less of burden.

I know there are purists who don't want to change anything so that when we do have a Triple Crown winner it will be bonafide equal to previous great champions. But we need to lower the bar just a tad to give a horse a realistic shot these days.
I could not agree more Ken.

Horse racing and baseball have so many similarities to learn from. There is a reason a hard thrower doesn’t throw both ends of a double header like was once done.

We have put so much muscle mass on virtually the same skeleton that recover time has been completely altered in athletics. Look at the intensity of any major sport as compared to film of 50 years ago. The collisions, torque and speed are red lining and not addressing it in our game is borderline ill responsible imo.

When the BC classic comes around each year and the few times we still have animals who competed in all 3 legs, look how bizarre those distances, spacing and weights look in proportion to the normal thoroughbred.

Some conveniently overlook the carnage that also took place in our sports past. It wasn’t all sound animals running each week. There was many a shallow grave dug with animals that were raced into submission.

The simple fact is we are not dealing with the same circumstances as 1935 and yet we apply the same criteria.

[MikeDee]

I disagree.

This is like saying we need to make the greens as Augusta National flat and slow, cut the rough at the US open and don't play the British open at a sea side course so that we can have a golfer that can win the grand slam.

I think breeding for a single race (the derby),is the main reason there has not been a winner in 31 years.

[DanG]

I disagree.

This is like saying we need to make the greens as Augusta National flat and slow, cut the rough at the US open and don't play the British open at a sea side course so that we can have a golfer that can win the grand slam.

I think breeding for a single race (the derby),is the main reason there has not been a winner in 31 years.
I see your point Mike, but through changes in equipment and training it forced the PGA to try and “Tiger-proof” certain holes by changing the yardage. (This btw only helps the longer hitters ironically imo). They changed a basic dynamic of the sports history through necessity.

The disabled lists in pro sports have grown exponentially. We have more torn hamstrings in two days then the ‘27 Yankees had all year.

If you told a baseball player in 1940 that there would be a 5-man starting rotation / long relief / middle / set-up and a closer they would wonder what planet you’re from. In Japan pitchers now only go once a week.

Bodies / training and circumstances change over time and I think we need to look at everything we can very seriously.

[tomcat]

If we made the race a year later, perhaps they would breed differently.

[njcurveball]

First off, I think weight carried needs to increase across the board. I have yet to read a story about how picking up 10 pounds enabled Da Tara to carry his speed another 3 1/2 furlongs.

I would make the weights tiered through the conditions, maidens carry less than claimers. Claimers less than Allowance. Allowance less than stakes, etc. A grade 1 stakes race may have a highweight of 140 or more.

Lowering the weights just means a jock who has starved themself more. I know this is a whole "great debate" but I have yet to hear a PRO weight "lawyer" explain how horses regularly pick up 5 pounds or more and run faster. Although it is much more common to hear about 5 pounds off being the key to the BIG form reversal.

Secondly, why does January 1st have to be the universal birthday? is there some way to give the 2 year olds a few extra months? Any way to stop the greed and have 2 year olds not race until September or October? Would love to see them make the universal birthday May 1st and not allow any 2 year old racing. I probably have a better chance of Heather Locklear calling tonight to say she is lonely. ;)

Don't know if I can support the extra rest, since Da Tara did quite well on the same amount of rest as Big Brown. Tale of Ekati had the dream race of his life with 2 extra weeks rest on them and backed up rather badly.

As for distance. I like the three races being all different. Belmont is a mile and a half around, so there are not any more turns involved.

[km]

What a good idea that is TomCat, a 4yr Triple Crown. That would keep them in training longer and strengthen the breed.

I just think it's time to try something innovative like that. This century-old 3yr classic series is wrecking all the potential champions before they turn 4yr and we never see them again. It's too much too soon in the life of a young developing thoroughbred to compete in the current Triple. It's wipe out for horses like Big Brown; how great he might have been as an older horse?

[DanG]

All good ideas and there is one undeniable fact. There is a reason less animal’s race in all 3 legs every year. Brown was the only one to attempt it this year and he is still trying to finish his last.

The pressure goes far beyond just the grueling 3 in 5 weeks while their still technically teenagers. The whip must be cracked just to make the Derby field. Look at the workout intensity leading up to the Derby, not to mention you must fire huge in the preps or you’re watching from home.

Jim is right you can’t lower the weights very much with riders already ruining their health to make scale, but 5 pounds would be within reason.

Tomcat’s idea makes perfect sense.

How to we run our yearling sales? We pump as much muscle mass as possible (through whatever means :rolleyes: ) attempting to make them appear a year older / then train them to run fast 1/8th mile quarter horse times. We wonder why their not developing as they age?

You can still train & teach a 2yo to gain bone density etc…but how many 2yo’s have been ruined by the rush for profit is mind-boggling. Run a little test this year on the early brilliant 2yo’s and make a note next year how few develop. I guarantee if they have already started 99.9% will be struggling 3yo’s with a variety of physical issues if they ever see 3yo.

[Mark]

As a delegate in good standing from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts I hereby nominate:

THOMAS C. WALTERS FOR PRESIDENT


An outstanding idea. Add a graduated purse series for 5 and 6yr horses and you may turn the breeding ordinates upside down. All else will follow...treat the disease at the root just like a gardener.

[tomcat]

My other idea was a $5 wager for every horse player to wager on a horse of his choice and $10 if wagered on the internet.

Maybe they would settle this silly disagreement.