Oaks/Derby Tour Contest.

[Mall]

Those who are members already have or will soon be receiving the email which contains a registration link which includes a description of the contest, which consists of five CD races on Oaks day and another five CD races on Derby day, with points and two NHC spots up for grabs, all of which seems pretty straightforward. However, given what happened last time, the item I thought it might make sense to emphasize is that selections must once again be made five minutes prior to the scheduled, as opposed to actual, post times. That shouldn't be much of a problem on Sat, when the time between races is typically stretched out to an hour or more as the races progress, and odds changes are not usually as dramatic as most Saturdays.

[dehere]

Cool contest - particularly where it will apparently be difficult to place actual wagers on most races this week end. At least that gives me something to do while wishing the horsemen and tracks would get together with some sort of solution to this matter.

Speaking of a desire to have people "come together", one of the interesting thing about this past week end at Ellis was the big article that appeared in Sunday's edition of the local Evansville newspaper. The article was about Ellis Park and the financial troubles it is having but a big portion of the article was devoted to complications caused by an ongoing strike among the former clerks and tellers. Personally, it was a bit difficult for me to cross the picket line when I went to the contest on Saturday but obviously not sufficiently difficult for me to turn around and leave. The point of the strike is troublesome though and, while the article was kinda one sided, it bothers me that a guy who is such a great friend to horseplayers everywhere seems to be intent on busting a union where employees seem to just want to retain the benefits of their seniority and avoid a pay cut from $15.80/hour to $12/hour. Anyway, all of this has little to do with handicapping horses, or does it?

[km]

I agree with everything you said Henry. The contest will be at least small consolation for the inability to bet on Churchill.

As a former Teamster myself (we went on strike at Disney in 1984) i don't cross picket lines without hearing the other side. I admire you for being thoughtful and conflicted about it. Thank you for the post.

[Mall]

Despite the ADW dispute, as far as I can tell Twin Spires will be conducting its weekly Handicapping Open this Saturday, so that's another option for those with the same problem as Ken and Henry. It's $25 to enter with a max of three entries, and it's probably safe to assume they'll use CD races for the seven mandatories. The last time I entered was years ago when it was run by Brisbet, but my recollection is that even then they were using the nhc online leaderboard technology, and that all things considered, the experience was a positive one. I'm pretty sure this contest was mentioned here not long ago, so perhaps someone who played one or both of the last two Saturdays can provide everyone an update.

[DanG]

Despite the ADW dispute, as far as I can tell Twin Spires will be conducting its weekly Handicapping Open this Saturday, so that's another option for those with the same problem as Ken and Henry. It's $25 to enter with a max of three entries, and it's probably safe to assume they'll use CD races for the seven mandatories. The last time I entered was years ago when it was run by Brisbet, but my recollection is that even then they were using the nhc online leaderboard technology, and that all things considered, the experience was a positive one. I'm pretty sure this contest was mentioned here not long ago, so perhaps someone who played one or both of the last two Saturdays can provide everyone an update.
Early morning observation;

The fact that someone as well connected as [Mall] Mel would say “as far as I can tell” in regard to ANYTHING in our industry is very disturbing imo.

If I may quote an old Led Zeppelin song title…there is a massive “Communication Breakdown” in our game to say the least. :(

BTW: This is no knock whatsoever; just the opposite, because the man is as well connected as anyone in the game.

[ggpagels]

Anyone received any info via email about the Oaks/Derby Tour contest:confused:

[dehere]

This is the guts of the email that I received.

April 28, 2008

Dear NHC Tour Members:

IMPORTANT NOTICE – PLEASE READ!

The NHC Tour 2008 Kentucky Derby and Oaks Challenge is now open for registration.

This contest is FREE for all Tour members.
You will receive another e-mail reminder later this week to select your horses. (Waiting on entries!)

You will be placing five (5) $2 win, place mythical wagers on both Friday (Oaks Day) and Saturday (Derby Day) each day. You will wager on ten races total.

The top two (2) point leaders over the two days of the contest (combined) will win a seat at the 2009 Daily Racing Form/NTRA National Handicapping Championship on January 23 & 24, 2009.

Here is the link to register: http://www.ntra.com/nhc/nhctour/

Reminder- NHCQualify.com tournaments for June will begin accepting sign-ups on May 5 at NOON (ET). NHCQualify.com has added 100 more entries per contest for a total of 300 each week. Be sure to sign-up early.

Last but not least, if you have any friends who have not signed up for the Tour, be sure to pass along the benefits of Tour membership. Good luck handicapping and please contact me if you have any questions about this letter.

Best of luck on your Oaks & Derby selections and hope all of you make money this weekend playing the horses!

Best regards,

Fritz Widaman
Sr. Director of Marketing, NTRA
(859) 422-2647 Direct

[km]

With the exception of the ESPN broadcast of three of the stakes races, there is no live feed or live odds on the Internet that i know of. I'm going to put them all in early I guess, remember what happened last time with the so called "5 minutes before listed post time" cutoff with lots of players getting shut out.

Here is the schedule for Friday for contest races.

Churchill Downs Race 5 - Aegon Turf Sprint (1:26 pm ET)
Churchill Downs Race 7 - Edgewood Stakes (3:04 pm ET)
Churchill Downs Race 9 - Crown Royal American Turf (4:47 pm ET)
Churchill Downs Race 10 - Kentucky Oaks (5:45 pm ET)
Churchill Downs Race 11 - Maiden (6:21 pm ET)

[dehere]

Dan had posted the TV schedule on Monday and it mentioned that ESPN would be on with "Today at Churchill Downs" on Friday at 3 pm and, again on ESPN2 and ESPN at 11 am and 12 noon, respectively on Saturday. Historically, those shows have consisted of live feeds of earlier races on the card. I'm hoping that is the source for live feed for a good number of the contest plays.

Speaking of the horsemen/tracknet fight, Steve Byk had a nice little commentary at the beginning of his show today in which he mentioned that one of the major beefs of the horsemen is the fact that the signal to ADW's is limited to just Tracknet and Xpressbet and that they feel they are losing a bunch of money because such entities as Youbet and TVG are not able to offer the races to their betting members. Byk also mentioned that there is a move afoot by horsemen in other states that indicates they might join the current battle.

If that is indeed the case I think i'm on the horsemen's side in this fight. I can give up a month or two of racing if this concerted effort by one group resulted in the signals being opened up to multiple ADW's. Byk also mentioned that Tracknet is not even negotiating at this point, but are holding their ground thinking the horsemen will cave. Me thinks that attitude might change if the horsemen truly are united in their fight with Churchill and Tracknet.

And therein lies another example of why the demise of unions has been a detriment to our nation's economy. Remember the day when a guy could work in a good union job, support his family on one salary and have a good retirement fund to boot so that he could go to what was once a lovely track at Gulfstream and hang out with his buddies all day all winter?

Anyway, I digress.

[ggpagels]

Thanks for the info, Henry. I'm a Tour member and have been receiving Tour emails but not the Oaks/Derby contest announcement:confused:

[Valupix]

Unfortunately the poor technology in place for this NTRA on-line tour contest has left a very odd hybrid that is not exactly a live contest and not exactly an advance selection contest. It was both confusing and frustrating the last time like nothing else I have ever experienced in my many years of contest play.

My question, with the already weird selection time issue combined with the possibility that the under card races will apparently not have on-line feed to the contest, just how f-ed up is this contest going to be?

Out of concern for my blood pressure, should I just forget about it?

[Mark]

T. J., For what it's worth ESPN360 had live and clear feed coverage of last year's Breeder's Cup and appear to offer same on Saturday and possibly Friday (conflict in two schedules linked).

This grabbag of greed TrackNet and the Horsemen's group have ladled out the over the last year is a disgrace for the players who foot the bill.

Hope this helps. The second link loads slowly and is today's schedule, just click tomorrow and upcoming.

http://www.espnmediazone.com/thiswk_midwk/thisweek.html#A

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/index

[Valupix]

T. J., For what it's worth ESPN360 had live and clear feed coverage of last year's Breeder's Cup and appear to offer same on Saturday and possibly Friday (conflict in two schedules linked).

This grabbag of greed TrackNet and the Horsemen's group have ladled out the over the last year is a disgrace for the players who foot the bill.

Hope this helps. The second link loads slowly and is today's schedule, just click tomorrow and upcoming.

http://www.espnmediazone.com/thiswk_midwk/thisweek.html#A

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/index
Thank you Mark.

I'm not going to have any problem finding live odds or a live broadcast feed. It will all be televised by ESPN, NBC and HRTV, but will the contest have an ability to tap into some sort of live odds feed is my question and if not, what type of mass complications is that going to cause with the contest?

[Mark]

I can't answer that, I'm going to submit all selections early and adjust for live odds as reasonable since my only source is ESPN360.com, NBC's lame coverage and the ADW's.

It seems a test of patience and resolve to deal with the perpetual nonsense the industry creates through it's convoluted structure.

Regardless, a fine weekend of racing lies ahead. Godspeed and safe trips for all.

[dehere]

For what its worth and in case you hadn't noticed. The Twin Spires web site has the program, including updated odds, for Churchill. You can't bet but for contest purposes you can follow the odds.

[Mark]

Thanks Henry, I just noticed that and was going to post same. You're a tough guy to keep up with these days. Here's to a champagne weekend for us all.

[dehere]

yeah video works too - so you can actually watch the post parade and the races

[Gambler]

Thanks Henry

[Donnie]

Thoroughly kicking myself right now!
Had to work today so I put my "quick" picks in before I left. Missed the $44 winner by 1 minute (As I got home and logged on they had just locked the board!!)! Had 2 winners and 2 second places! One of the winners was that race 11 winner. Come 'on tomorrow!!!

[km]

darn good showing Donnie, you are in the top 20.

I see Mel, Mayo, Lurking Cliff, Dave Tuleytout, several other people from this board are close up

good luck tomorrow gang!

[Donnie]

.......one minute short of having the lead.....<sigh>....coulda swapped $5 with $60!...friggin' work, always getting in the way of everything! LOL!



Thanks KM! Yup....in good company up there!

[km]

Anybody do good? Maybe one of you is the winner "sam" ? (Donnie's son?!)

I see Dave Tuley in the top-20 (TuleytheTout). 14th place out of 2000 top tourney players, that's an amazing accomplishment --- and what does he get for it? a handful of tour points - oh boy, that'll pay those credit card bills Dave :o

[dehere]

Mel, Maddy and I had three shots in the $50 - $72 range going into the Derby and I thought we spread very nicely. But, given the way the track was playing today, when none of our three were in the top 10 horses going into the far turn I knew we were dead meat.

Twin Spires failed miserably. I guess I am happy that I could not get any more bets down in the last half hour but it was impossible (at least for me) to even get in the site for that last half hour. Greedy sonsabitches.

[Mark]

We got 54th and 150th hoping for a cap few had in the Derby, Smooth Air.

Lost $3.40 on the race with an exacta cover on too many opinions to tally or bet (shut out).

A grand day without Eight Belles, ringing in misfortune.

Tough game on the heart, wallet a distant second.

[jbshoulda]

Barb finished 13th

13 bbaloha $100.20
14 tuleythetout $100.00

[dehere]

Mark - I had Smooth Air as well. I really thought he would be somewhat close - in second pack, sitting in the cat bird seat coming out of the far turn.

[km]

Looking at the "end" of the standings, it appears there were some 680 players or so. Isn't this far fewer than the first free online tour contest? I thought there were about 1000 people registered for the tour now.

Anyway, Barb and Dave, nice showing, you still beat some 650 very determined handicappers. Your earned some respect, if not money!

[Mall]

Prior to the contest, there were 875 tour members. When we were talking about when to hold a second free contest, my thought was this coming weekend, the theory being that quite a few members would be viewing the Derby from a place which did not have computer access. I'm guessing that explains why the participation wasn't higher, and I'm also guessing a fairly large number put all of their plays in beforehand. Also, I'm not optimistic given the relative lack of promotion that there were many new sign ups as a result of the Oaks/Derby contest. On the other hand, it is the biggest racing weekend of the year, and because of the ADW dispute, it gave tour members a reason to watch the undercard races.

Congrats and then some are certainly in order for Barbara and Dave, as their $100 totals are very impressive given that seven of the 10 contest races were won by favorites, which makes the $142 and $133 totals of the two members who earned NHC spots nothing short of extraordinary.

As km mentioned, I was in great position after day one. I pitched a the proverbial contest shutout on Derby Day in what for Henry and I was a classic case of "negative convergence." If I had used all of Henry's plays yesterday, or Henry had used all of my plays Friday, that would have been more than enough to do the trick.

Though for obvious reasons I have my doubts, it will be interesting to see if yesterday's pick6, which produced a $410k+ carryover, is a lesson learned for next year. Correctly noting that the pk6 pool was always well in excess of $1 million, CD announced prior to Derby Day that the $1 million guarantee was being eliminated as unnecessary. Yesterday's pool was a little over $676k, which I have to believe cost the track $100k or more.

There will also be a $331k super high 5 carryover for Wed's finale, a $15k mcl race, so it might be time to start thinking about giving that bet a try.