Time to vote with your $$$$$

[ERNIE2]

We all know that Keeneland opened today, and that they have lowered the track takeout to
16% "across the board" .....(their meet runs from today 10/5 to 10/27) This is the time for ALL handicappers to cast a vote of support for a lower take out at every track in the country by making every bet you can at Keeneland. A very simple fact is that "when" a lower take out results in a larger handle you will see all the bean counters at every other track doing the same thing and maybe a little "upmanship" by doing something more.
I urge each of you, that if your going to make one bet during this time, make it at
Keeneland.

On the other hand I read in todays Racing Form that Keenland has already lost 10(ten) simulcast locations as of this the first day......these locations are listed as Monmouth,Meadowlands,Alantic City,Laurel,Pimlico,Philadelphia,Penn National,Delaware,Colonial and Charles Town......These tracks belong to something called the "Mid-Atlantic Cooperative"
Anyone care to guess what tracks I won't be handicapping (spell that betting) for a long time?

[tomcat]

Ernie, you are right! Not only should we boycott those tracks, we should let them know what we think of their attitude toward the better.

[hurrikane]

Interesting. I'm going to a tourney today at Del and KEE is one of the tracks listed. Wonder how they will explain that.

[MikeDee]

Two sides to every story. Here are 3 articles

http://espn.go.com/horse/news/2001/1005/1259999.html
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=6195
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=6206


A quote from the espn article

"The way this works is that Keeneland still gets paid its money from simulcast sites no matter how far they lower the takeout," Lieberman said. "We think this should be more of a partnership."

[MtKen]

Mike:

Thanks for the articles. Not quite as 1-sided as it seems. Still, thanks Kee!

[MikeDee]

It will be interesting to see how KEE will respond. Without NY and mid Atl. They have to be losing a boatload of revenue I would think much more then will be generated with the lower takeout on what remains.

In the meantime I'll be playing KEE alot more then I used to.

[MtKen]

hopefully Kee will try to accommodate the East Coast some way. @ least the industry is being forced to look at lower takeouts.

[Sam Thorp]

Unfortunately, I have to side with the simulcasting outlets on this one.

Keeneland has long been known to charge an exhorbitant price for its TV feed. This is charged whether or not the simulcast outlet takes a dime's worth of bets from them. On top of that, they want a percentage of the total bet amount if the feed is used (which any live simulcast outlet would have to do, and which YouBet did not opt to take for its webcast).

Then, they lower the takeout to 16% on all bets, including trifectas, which are a chief moneymaker for simulcast outlets. But they still want the same percentage of the take on all bets, which I believe is 10% on straight wagers (which were 17.5%) and 12% on exotics (which were 19%).

In other words, instead of getting 7.5% of all straight wagers, the simulcast outlet now gets 6%, which is a loss of 20%. But on exotics, instead of getting 7%, they are now only getting 4%, which is a 42% drop. Top that off with having to pay a flat fee to Keeneland for the TV signal, as well as a fee to Autotote for their technology in handling the bets, and you can see why the simulcast outlets weren't happy about it.

To put it simply: Keeneland was giving the bettors a break, but they weren't losing anything on the 75% of the money that came in from interstate wagering. They were making the simulcast outlets foot the bill there.

Note that this isn't the same as Saratoga, which lowered the takeout on win betting, doubles, and exactas slightly, but kept trifectas and other multiple-race exotics at 25%.

Bottom line to the simulcast outlets was that they weren't going to let Keeneland get away with that. If they had, other tracks might have followed suit. A stand has to be taken somewhere. That's my two cents worth.

[hurrikane]

well, so there are two sides. Seems to me Kee wants to look good in public while raping the simulcasts. Hmm...can a racetrack be voted president. :D

[tomcat]

That is an interesting reply.

But Keeneland is a non-profit organization.They make their money on horse sales.

I need to ask someone at Keeneland for their response. Not knowing enough about either side, I tend to still side with Ernie. I don't trust the motives of some of these simulcasting utlets.

I've been to some simulcasting outlets that barely tolerate the customer, let alone try to do any nice for them. One of my pet peeves is Bonita Beach dog track. It has to be one of the worst I have ever seen. Of course there are others that come close.

[MtKen]

Thanks Sam for explaining the nuances of simulcast costs. I don't see how Kee can chop 42% of payment off the exotic handle from their biggest market (East Coast) & expect someone not to bitch. Not to mention the cut taken off mutuels. I'd still hope Kee would see this & spread the risk so this reduced takeout experiment could proceed.

Maybe since Kee racing is non-profit this affords them the opportunity to experiment that the remaining for-profit racing venues don't have or don't think they have. Unfortunately we aren't going to get lower takeouts if they are offered to simulcasts on a take-it-or-leave-it
basis.

Now back to my Kee pp's!

[ERNIE2]

I don't understand the logic.......seems to me that the cost of the signal and the takeout are the same things.....I'm not sure that there is any fee for the signal that is extra over and above what is taken by way of the takeout if there is it would seem to me to be a bad deal from the start..........that would mean that the outlet would have to pay even on days when no one bets on that track(like when its pouring rain at Bel and the sun is shinning at AP)

I agree/and understand that when I make a bet (and win) a fixed percentage must be returned to me by law,the rest is kept by the track for expenses(taxes,purses,blind judges and profit) Now if that bet is made in a legal outlet....that outlet gets to keep part of the takeout and if the outlet was allowed to keep "say" half of the takeout(after taxes) by contract, it is half no matter what the track take is(less for sure but still the same % )
and my belief is that the one thing for sure in all this is that "if" you give a horseplayer more money he/she will bet more therefore creating more bets(spell that takeout/profit) for the track and the outlets.

if there is one thing that has never been said at after a race its: "Ijust hit that big exacta,I'll be right back, I gotta go put some of my winnings my money market/mutual fund" and no book has ever been written that told you to bet less( a smaller % of bankroll) when your winning.......
I once found myself in an OTB in Lake George, NY. starting a good day watching-n-wagering off to a good start won a couple of win bets,until I hit an exacta that paid something around $116-$118......don't remember the amount,but do remember the questions I had when the guy only paid me $96.........Seems that in New York there is something extra taken from the exotics payouts......but not from the outlet its taken from the better......maybe I'm spoiled but that put the brakes on my betting that day and ever betting in another NY OTB.........that may not have much to do with this thread topic ........I have told the story before beliving that was the day that I knew for sure that I was a value player(willing to wait for value) and not a gambler that was there just for the action........off my soapbox now and out the door Kee's first post is comming up........
Today at our watch-n-wager I will see if I can find out how much of the take they get to retain when a bet is made there......will report back !

[tbrown]

The qulaity of Kennland.com's video is enough to make me a regular player.
It is the best I have ever seen on the web.
Too bad YouBet can't figure out how to broadcast quality video.
Go Keenland! :p :p :p

[MikeDee]

looks they kissed and made up

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=6294

[karlskorner]

Gentlemen, etal:

In todays DRF the following headline:

HARTHILL TO PAY TUBING FINE

Dr. Alex Harthill, PRESIDENT of Kentucky HBPA was caught giving a horse a "milkshake",
claims he was "just practicing veternary medicine". Pays a $1000.00 fine and goes on his way, no suspension of license, no banning from the track, just a fine.

Something I read a long time ago. "In a land of blind men, a one eyed man can be King"

If the "suits" that control the racing industry keep hiding their heads in the sand and refuse to accept that such people as the good Doctor exist, we will continue to have "fixing" of horse races.

All the computer DB's and programs are worth naught, as long as the one eyed man (the fixer) exists.

And this is the State (KY) that recently lowered their "takeout" to 16%, causing all the pundit's on various chat lines and in the media to declare "let's boycott the mid-atlantic tracks and take our money to Kentucky".

As I pointed out, this is the President of the KY HBPA, if he can do it, what must the other 1500 trainers be thinking ? He forgot to close the barn door, so he gets slapped with a $1000. fine, next time he'll remember and believe me there will be a next time.

So go bet in Kentucky, the land of blue grass, sponges and milkshakes and the best of luck.

Karl

[George]

Karl...you forgot foal-paper switching. I know at least 3 print shops in Erlanger and Florence that have made a large part of their living for years with meticulous forgings of foal-papers.

Not that Turfway and Ellis would look the other way if the horse descripion didn't match. heheheh.

[karlskorner]

George;

2 weeks ago CRC (my home track) caught a Trainer putting the wrong horse on the morning workout track, they caught him and he got 6 months suspension. He's out of the business as far as I an concerned..

The use of drugs and other forms of 'fixing a race" have been rampant too long in the industry and you and I are the beneficiaries of this larceny.

Karl

[hurrikane]

Amazing...a 1000 fine. And Baffert gets a month for poppy seeds. :D

Wonder what the big secret is that they don't want the details of the agreement to be public.

Why do the people involved at the top of this game have to make it seem so sleezy. They need to toss of them and put in some people that had ethics in school.

[MikeDee]

All the computer DB's and programs are worth naught, as long as the one eyed man (the fixer) exists.

and so is the DRF, the sheets, and anything else anyone uses based on past performance. The number one priority of all the suits should be to keep the game clean and root out the cheaters. If they lose the confidence to the betting public the game is over.