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DanG
4th February 2007, 04:27.47 PM
Note:

I don’t post often on “PA’s” board, but this thread was interesting to me. A woman claiming to be a pro posted her experiences and was subsequently barbequed to a large degree. This struck me, because as I posted earlier I knew a woman pro well who felt the need to hide this saying she felt “resentment” from men.

This was followed an HTR member mentioning that this years 3rd place woman finisher in the NHC was incorrectly identified as a “beard”.

I post this here while some of it is out of context without reading the prior back and forth. While this is way too long and jumps around (as I often do :eek: ) it may be interesting to anyone in the HTR family who is / or considering doing this for income.

Obviously reading the prior thread on PA would provide some background. I warn you, the PA thread is rather long and some of it down right insulting. (Something HTR’s board rarely if ever ascends to fortunately) I believe the post on PA is entitled…”My years as a professional”

Warning…Long post!

Reminder…This is strictly in reference to the PA thread, not intended for the good people who post here.

-------------------------------

Preface: I stated reading this post as I knew a woman who played professionally and I found it fascinating the reactions she received. I give her credit for even dignifying some of them as I know I wouldn’t bother.

As far as the anxiety aspect of racing paying your nut, my experience is it goes in waves.

(I can only speak for myself, but it’s not exclusive to me as I know a few people who have had similar cycles.)

My first year it was almost over whelming at times. I was single and still the financial pressures and working much too long vs. working smart was draining me. The cost of doing business in New Jersey was rising and I decided to move to Vegas after it was recommended to me by a good NY player.

Vegas was the turning point for me as I met three other full time players and we hit it off. They had a partnership and allowed me to join for a stake. I think the clincher was Turf routes were their weak point and they happen to be my strength.

The pressure of playing for my nut decreased tremendously. I roomed with one of the guys (cutting expenses.) and they were older than I and had tremendous confidence and it was infectious. As fate would have it our partnership and trust was solidified early as I had a key turf bomb and we hit a sizeable pick-6.

This went on for several years before I met my soon to be wife and her family lived in Tampa and we moved back.

Everything changed…She had children and they needed all the insurances, coverage’s, health benefits etc that come with traditional employment. I quit the partnership and supervised a telecommunications company for a few years. I continued to play at nights on the side, but with all the time requirements my play suffered. In addition there was a stigma attached with her family that viewed horse players as one step below earth worms.

I was miserable and we both knew it. We had a very amicable divorce and the next stage began. (BTW: For what it’s worth… I have a better relationship with her and her kids when I became true to myself.)

I was very fortunate in that my group was still going strong and I joined for a second time. Still living in Tampa I wanted to lighten the work load of creating all my own information and joined HTR. This was a very important move as it allowed me to A) get more sleep and B) focus more on evaluating rather than gathering data.

Next crisis…My brother is living right outside of New Orleans when Katrina hits. No sign of him or his girlfriend and kids for 4-days. (Same frightening situation with Rick from HTR)…Long story short, he had no coverage and virtually zero savings. He has ALWAYS been there for me, so I pulled out of the partnership (again) and used the funds to help him start over.

Several months pass as I need to gather a stake. I go back to a “traditional” job and betting at night…the very second I get the proper funds I enter the partnership (for a 3rd time :eek: )…That takes us up to today.

Couple points…I know this is running way too long, but we fortunately hit the pick-6 at SA yesterday (after a significant drought) and I have a little more energy than usual. I don’t type as fast as some of you, so this was written over a significant time period.

The anxiety eventual goes away over time with the players I know. It’s a bell curve of initially tremendous nervousness; to refining your work load and methods to eventually it becomes “almost” like another job. Dick Schmidt I think it was said it right. The process almost becomes “boring” when you hit your stride. I still get pumped with carry-overs and top class horses, but the average weekday card has become quite routine.


I think many players underestimate the power that a good partnership can provide. If you’re lucky enough to get with mature, honest and serious players it can help you in many ways you would not have considered.

I enjoy reading the horse racing forums very much. There is so much knowledge people are willing to share. I’m the only one of my group who ever writes and I’ve been told I write too much, but I find it very therapeutic. One of my partners in particular could write a thesis on constructing multi-race wagers, but the truth is he will never pass along that great knowledge.

Many…many people much sharper than I could have so much to teach, but besides the obvious reasons of maintaining their edge, they have no time for some of the petty back and forth that goes with posting thoughts.

I’m sure I’m not alone in spotting the posters who while typing from their mother’s basement are so quick and sure of why “all the pros they have met” are flawed in their approach. As the great dialogue in Silence of the Lambs went (I am paraphrasing)…” You see a lot, poster. But are you strong enough to turn that high-powered perception at yourself?”

They may not like what they see. :eek:

One last thing and I’ll mercifully end this…Of all the misconceptions about gambling for a living…#1 is you are not “quitting your job to play”. You are quitting one job to attempt a much tougher one.

If you read this start to finish…thanks for your endurance…If not, I wouldn’t blame you! :D

AwolAtHTR
5th February 2007, 12:08.34 AM
thank you Dan for posting your story.

I found it refreshing to hear the realities of a person betting full time for their income.

Your personnal trials and conflicts were not only interesting but emphasized that the betting budget has a different meaning when betting is your only source of income.

duane

MikeDee
5th February 2007, 07:30.50 AM
I read it start to finish Dan. Thanks for taking the time to post. Interesting insights to professional gambling.

DanG
5th February 2007, 08:53.01 AM
Thanks Duane & Mike;

I like your comments more than the e-mail I got last night…”Your getting too bleeping personal”!...LOL :D

OPM
5th February 2007, 01:30.32 PM
Dan:
Very good read and you can go around this post in many ways but the bottom line in my opinion is: what's most important in your life and can you make enough money in your job(whatever it is to keep everyone happy including yourself). Enough money means you can pay the rent, insurance for kids, save for retirement and put food on the table. You also have to do something that you enjoy or else life is not fun. It seems you were able to do the first part but life wasn't fun. Kudos to you and your ex-wife for seeing this. However, are you making enough money betting? Will the next emergency that comes around cause you to stop betting and get a "traditional" job? If this is the case, then you are not really making enough money betting( in my opinion). Good luck to you my friend and I hope the next carryover, your group has the second ticket(I'll have the first with my $16 Massa special:D :D )
Gupta

DanG
5th February 2007, 02:27.32 PM
Dan:
Very good read and you can go around this post in many ways but the bottom line in my opinion is: what's most important in your life and can you make enough money in your job(whatever it is to keep everyone happy including yourself). Enough money means you can pay the rent, insurance for kids, save for retirement and put food on the table. You also have to do something that you enjoy or else life is not fun. It seems you were able to do the first part but life wasn't fun. Kudos to you and your ex-wife for seeing this. However, are you making enough money betting? Will the next emergency that comes around cause you to stop betting and get a "traditional" job? If this is the case, then you are not really making enough money betting( in my opinion). Good luck to you my friend and I hope the next carryover, your group has the second ticket(I'll have the first with my $16 Massa special:D :D )
Gupta
Good points Gupta;

It’s the life I’ve chosen and knock on wood very few of us are completely immune to life’s emergencies. It really comes down to what degree you can tolerate and prosper. I think I may have come off as I live from week to week and that is not the case.

I’m not trying to blow my own horn here as many of you are far more wealthy than I, but my X is living in a nice house that I paid for free and clear and my step-daughter is in her first year at the University of Florida on my dime.

Do I have more “exposure” than most of you? Yes, absolutely…but it’s a level I’m comfortable at and I’m always hopeful a very lucrative pick-6 is right around the corner. :D

OPM
5th February 2007, 03:04.15 PM
And that's why you're successful, you are comfortable and very happy in what you are doing. About a year ago, couple of us tried betting on a full time basis while keeping our current jobs, obviously did not work out too well. However, I learn a great lesson, I really don't want to handicap horses 5 days/week and have the pressure of other people depending on my take of these races. I am much more comfortable doing things at my own speed. I handicap with a good group of guys from time to time but with everyone spread across the country in different time zones, it gets difficult when you have other things to take care of. Continued success and we have to get you out to one of the tourney or the seminar one of these years(if I could ever make it to a seminar myself). As some may know, there are a couple of us that can talk horses and sports for days.

OPM
5th February 2007, 03:15.19 PM
As an aside, I read your post on paceadvantage and I think that there will be many more professionals if the takeout comes down to 5% and betting exchanges are licensed in the US.
I also think winter racing should be abolished as cruelty to animals, jockeys and fans.

njcurveball
5th February 2007, 03:35.09 PM
Dan,

When I started out in the work force, I was told the "standard" was to have 3 months income socked away in case of Emergency. I can honestly tell you that 75% or more of the people who have cushy jobs here cannot even come close to that.

Job security is a thing of the past. In 1993 I was faced with a lay off and I said if the new contract did not pick me up, I would turn pro. Even with a dis-approving now EX wife, I think I would have been much happier doing that.

Unfortunately, I was one of the few that were picked up and here I sit making good money, wishing I was somewhere else.

They say you should do what you WOULD do if no one told you what to do. Looks like you are one of the few doing that. I applaud and congratulate you for doing it. In fact, I sit back and admire you for doing it.

I agree with OPM that is why you are successful. And also agree it would be fun to meet and chat for hours!

I am clearing my calendar for July, but you have softball duty. Maybe another seminar could be scheduled for October? Maybe in Tampa in the Winter? They have a tourney, right?

Thanks for all your posts Dan! I have learned a lot from reading them! If only Tampa Bay could do as well for you!

Jim

dehere
5th February 2007, 04:06.54 PM
Curious - is that income for things you "need" for that three month time span or for things you both "need" and "want" for those three months of joblessness? Quite a difference between the two as far as i can tell.

DanG
5th February 2007, 04:12.23 PM
we have to get you out to one of the tourney or the seminar one of these years(if I could ever make it to a seminar myself). As some may know, there are a couple of us that can talk horses and sports for days.
That’s the truth…

I look forward to it and you will recognize me as the one “listening” far more than he speaks.

Unless of course its late night and the “hospitality” spirits are flowing. Then I can’t guarantee silence! :D

DanG
5th February 2007, 04:36.45 PM
Thanks for the kind words Jim!

I think my New Jersey roots are influencing your take on my ramblings, but I really appreciate it. (Now; If you could only teach me to throw a deuce without my elbow killing me, or to type at your speed!)

Curious - is that income for things you "need" for that three month time span or for things you both "need" and "want" for those three months of joblessness? Quite a difference between the two as far as i can tell.
Henry;

That’s the rub…It’s all relative. It always gets back to the level of “quality” of life you are willing to get by on. 3 months of bare essentials (your nut) is a good benchmark, but we all have only so many of these 3 month blocks on earth and I know I like to go to dinner and a ball game as much as the next guy.

For instance; I have an extremely hard time saying no if my stepdaughter / son needs something so I can’t just say I’ve got a 6 month nest egg and it’s written in stone.

The trick I have learned is when you get a win fall… (And they do come) treat it as “earnings” and not as “winnings”. I learned the hard way early in Vegas after a 6 figure score. Single and with all the lovely temptations Vegas offers it was living beyond my means to put it mildly.

It’s obvious this is a very well educated group of successful people and you’re no exception. I don’t have a degree to fall back on and was working in our family’s restaurant while most of you were going to college. For better or worse…With all its potential dangers its what I know.

As I’ve said before…I can’t honestly say I would recommend it to anyone. It’s the greatest game in terms of sheer beauty and intellectual challenge, but as your primary income it’s walking through a minefield at times.

DanG
5th February 2007, 04:38.19 PM
As an aside, I read your post on paceadvantage and I think that there will be many more professionals if the takeout comes down to 5% and betting exchanges are licensed in the US.
I also think winter racing should be abolished as cruelty to animals, jockeys and fans.
Can we please make you Czar of racing for a day Gupta? :)

BillW
5th February 2007, 05:03.25 PM
Dan,

I enjoyed the read, it was quite interesting.

You stated that HTR successfully lightened your work load. I would be curious to hear your comments on what specifically you see HTR as replacing (both data wise and task wise) from your previous incarnation of being HTR-free.

BTW, the HTR seminar and attendant evening study sessions at the racebook-side bar are a must attend even if you are not entered in the contest on the days following. :D

Bill

DanG
5th February 2007, 06:44.56 PM
Dan,

I enjoyed the read, it was quite interesting.

You stated that HTR successfully lightened your work load. I would be curious to hear your comments on what specifically you see HTR as replacing (both data wise and task wise) from your previous incarnation of being HTR-free.

BTW, the HTR seminar and attendant evening study sessions at the racebook-side bar are a must attend even if you are not entered in the contest on the days following. :D

Bill
Great point Bill…

Even if you’re not in the contest the after hours sessions have to be a blast! :D

As far as what HTR has replaced...where do I start?

As far as what’s its replaced it’s the manual gathering of speed figures, pace figures, variants, temp rails, charts, track profiles, par times etc. If you’re a fanatic over detail, this is at least two hour’s + a day to follow one circuit and its feeder tracks. I’m leaving out so much because it’s what its introduced that has been more amazing.

After years of hand gathering data I was exporting from DRF Formulator. It left much to be desired as anyone who has used it can attest. I was looking for quality software that had exporting as a real function and not just an afterthought. When I signed up with HTR I really had no idea it would forever change the way I play.

First it was an awakening to learn of how clean the data comes from HDW. That in itself is a 100% improvement over straight Equibase data. Then the organized way Ken has of displaying data really streamlines what it turns out was my semi-cluttered approach.

HTR members know all about Ken’s amazing custom ratings so I’m not going to ramble on about the contender ratings, K & PSCN, or value ratings, HTR Consensus, or the in-genius Workout and Pedigree ratings.

The real “time savings” have not honestly come until recently. I spent long hours fascinated by Ken’s whole philosophy and approach. I have read his newsletters more than I care to admit. I read this BBS forward and backwards and all current members and those no longer with us have taught so much.

There is a “simplistic complexity” to Ken and HTR that is hard to describe. I remember one of our restaurants Chefs had such an economy of movement and yet produced more than anyone. It was poetry to watch. I have tried to absorb that from HTR.

I have a flaw in that I must know EVERYTHING I can about a horse before I bet. In turf racing this has helped me as I feel I can visually analyze turf racing with almost anyone. (Not the overrated and bet trouble lines, it’s the agility and short bursts of acceleration that rarely transform to ratings that I excel at.)

With dirt & artificial racing HTR has opened up a whole new world to me. The dynamics involved in velocity and Ken’s ability to accurately deliver those numbers. For those of us who have made them…Velocity numbers are HARD TO MAKE! Especially on a nation wide scale.

We are so fortunate that Ken has made the necessary commitment to produce top class data. He has paid many dues formulating these ratings that all seem so familiar now.

Long story short…HTR has added as much to the quality of my life as it has to the bottom line. As I told Donnie the other night, it was almost fate that I found HTR and was so close to going to another data provider.

Now I have to work in social time to meet the good people in the HTR family! As Ken said, that may be the best part of the entire HTR experience. The fact that it has brought so many good and interesting people together.

BTW: As I always seem to do lately…Did I address your question Bill, or just ramble on? :eek: :D :confused:

Donnie
5th February 2007, 07:50.25 PM
Dan-
Great post.
Now...take some advice from one old dog. I know you are devoted to your family and their needs/intents during the summer months, BUT I think you need to make the time for another love in your life. Attending the seminar will be an experience that will further your game and your relationships with others on here. I guarantee you that many on here are "handicapped" by the keyboard. Talk will flow. Ideas will churn. People will challenge you (in a positive way). It IS a unique experience!
Not to take anything away from your family....but they will be there when you return.
And I would bet that Ken would invite you to sit at his table during the tournament if you choose to attend!

dehere
5th February 2007, 07:57.19 PM
A couple of thoughts. For what its worth, I think I have gotten more out of the seminar - particularly Donnie's part of the event - and such when I was not competing in the contest on the next three days. Second, attending the seminar is no guarantee of a seat at the table of Massa Ken. :)

DanG
5th February 2007, 08:15.24 PM
Dan-
Great post.
Now...take some advice from one old dog. I know you are devoted to your family and their needs/intents during the summer months, BUT I think you need to make the time for another love in your life. Attending the seminar will be an experience that will further your game and your relationships with others on here. I guarantee you that many on here are "handicapped" by the keyboard. Talk will flow. Ideas will churn. People will challenge you (in a positive way). It IS a unique experience!
Not to take anything away from your family....but they will be there when you return.
And I would bet that Ken would invite you to sit at his table during the tournament if you choose to attend!
Donnie,

You make it hard to refuse!

Both seminars I’ve missed since subscribing have been long weeks. The first one I could have made re-working some things and regretted it after hearing all of you discuss it. The second one I could not make in any way.

Much of this depends if she makes it as a walk on at Florida and / or plays travel ball. I’m hoping she makes the squad because the Gator season is over sometime in June I think.

Have my fingers crossed!!! :)

DanG
5th February 2007, 08:17.25 PM
A couple of thoughts. For what its worth, I think I have gotten more out of the seminar - particularly Donnie's part of the event - and such when I was not competing in the contest on the next three days. Second, attending the seminar is no guarantee of a seat at the table of Massa Ken. :)
Exactly Henry!

I haven’t earned the right to sit at the big man’s table at the tournament yet!!!...”I’m not worthy” as Wayne’s World would put it! :D

BillW
5th February 2007, 08:55.05 PM
BTW: As I always seem to do lately…Did I address your question Bill, or just ramble on? :eek: :D :confused:

Excellent post, Dan. Answered my question exactly!

km
6th February 2007, 03:41.21 AM
Thanks for all the accolades Dan - glad you have found a good fit with HTR. Great reads so far in 2007 with our forums and Tommy's blog on the contests. I don't think you can beat this board for interesting and useful information lately.