Milkshake all you want

[OPM]

Seems new theory in exercise physiology states that lactic acid is actually food for muscle and not a waste product. Thus, logic behind milkshaking is way off, however, if there is more than bicarb in the milkshake then....

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/16/health/nutrition/16run.html

[tomcat]

Wow, OPM, for this old student with 2 degrees in this stuff....this is a shocker. We are or were believers in the role lactic acid played inthe body. Now I ned to read some more about this.

But, The old trainers really beleive that milkshakes do work. Mybe the physiology is something other than what we think it is. Tne process is rather gruessome as they work tubes down a horse throught it nose.

If its all a sham maybe they will change their minds and legalize milkshakes.?

[MVM]

Looks like horse racing is catching up to the Olympic world and coming to realize that there are many ways to enhance athletic performance through the use of substances that occur naturally within the body.

In many ways, the post race testing process is a bit prehistoric, and more and more it looks like the detention barn is the way to go. I don't want to see trainers getting fines for being over an arbitrary limit on something like lactic acid or red cells, but I would also like to have some reasonable assurance that none of these substances has been injected within x hours of a race.

Truth be told, I could deal with it if there were full disclosure, or if it were used in the same, relatively consistent "across the board" manner that many imagine the "supertrainers" utilize it.

[OPM]

Tomcat:
Alot of stuff in medicine are taken for granted without any real scientific studies behind them. As you can see from the article, this doc. had a hard time getting people to believe him, he was ostracized, couldn't get grant money, etc. THere is much more study need here but who will pay for it? Also, it stated that the best way to get athletes into shaped is having them train longer and longer distances, can you say Afleet Alex.

MVM: I do care about the amt of red blood cells there. This means there was blood doping either with drugs or transfusion. What alot of people don't know is that quite a few horses will have a reaction to EPO and die from it. I would bet any money this is what happened to a couple of big horses the last couple of years. A detention barn will not affect EPO or blood doping. Also, where there is blood doping, there are other stuff going on.

[tomcat]

The studies they talk about hooking a frog leg (w/out a body) to electic wires for study is one I remember we did in grad school.

It's one of the reasons why to this day, I cannot eat frog legs. I can still smell the Formaldehyde.

Lactic acid is supposed to be what causes fatigue. As this waste buildsup fatigue sets in. Long distance training delays the build up of lactic acid. My teams always did a lot running.

But. what the hell, what do I know?

[OPM]

Does long distance training delay the buildup of lactic acid or causes the body to utilize it more efficiently? Apparently it is the latter.
Here's another frog leg experiment: Scientist tells a frog to jump and the frog jumps 4feet, he then cuts off 2 of the frogs legs and tells it to jump and the frog jumps 2 feet. He cuts off all 4 legs and tells the frog to jump, the frog doesn't move. Scientist concludes that a frog with no legs is DEAF!!!!!

[MVM]

Anyone ever read a book called "The Fit Racehorse" by Tom Ivers?
It detailed a training regimen called Interval Training, somewhat similar to the type of training advocated in LD runner articles. Very controversial book, and trainers were very polarized in their views of it. But, inasmuch as it was published in 1983, it may ultimately prove to be a little bit ahead of it's time.

I have found the lactic acid/performance debate to be one of the more fascinating things I have been exposed to over the years. Interesting to think of broken down glycogen as being "food" for muscles, but I do know that lactic acid does influence the chloride ion channels. So I guess it is reasonable to think of lactic acid as an "alternate fuel source" produced by and utilized by muscles in the absence of the oxygen that is a component of the "primary" fuel source.

This is what makes this board great, you can talk about these things and actually find people who understand what you are talking about.

[OPM]

MVM: It has to do with the switch from aerobic to anaerobic oxidation. Obivously, aerobic is more efficient in providing energy to cell but anaerobic will also provide enery and lactate can be a substrate for anaerobic energy production. A fit animal may be able to use latate more efficiently because the have more mitochondria to process this fuel(?), at least that's what they are saying.
I think they should just give these horses a jug of JOLT which has 2x the caffeine and 3x the sugar!!

[tomcat]

OPM...I knew a trainer that gave his horse a taste of coffee....no, he didn't like it.

[hurrikane]

It will be curious to see how this plays out, if anyone actually listens.

What excuse will they use for big turnarounds and Mullins going into a slump after a fine.

It will be very interesting.