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View Full Version : Hong Kong knows the deal; read the final paragraph, might have co-mingled pools in US


OPM
9th April 2006, 09:30.15 PM
Tax reform 'key to recovery'
Jockey Club plan to lure illegal punters back into fold

ALAN AITKEN

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Winfried Engelbrecht-Bresges: enormous positives
The Hong Kong Jockey Club believes tax reform will create new turnover from abroad and return illegal domestic turnover to a taxable regime.

The move from a turnover tax to a gross profits tax has still to pass through the Legislative Council, but Tuesday's approval by the Executive Council was a victory in the club's sustained campaign to arrest a drop in annual turnover of more than 33 per cent since its peak of $92.4 billion in 1997.

Final approval of the plan would mean a move to a gross profits tax, which would guarantee $24 billion revenue to the government for the next three years and would allow more versatility in how the Jockey Club responds to competition.

While the likely implementation of the planned changes has yet to be made public, talk of lower takeout rates from betting pools or direct rebates to punters is aimed squarely at the illegal operators which, the club maintained as recently as last May, handle a level of wagering "between $50-60 billion a year" - or close to that bet legally through the club.

Executive director of racing Winfried Engelbrecht-Bresges said yesterday the new tax structure would give the club the weapons to fight illegal betting by removing the competitive advantages enjoyed by bookmakers.

"If we have more freedom to restructure the pricing of our product, this becomes a direct hit on the way the illegals do business," Engelbrecht-Bresges said. "The illegal market does not have our overheads, and is able to offer its customers our dividends but with rebates on losing bets. That is money which never makes any tax revenue for the government."

Rebates of 10 per cent are commonplace, with discounts of up to 15 per cent available in the illegal market, but a reduction in takeout rates from legal pools would squeeze the margins of the illegals to make such discounts unprofitable, while rebates on losing bets would hit right at the source of the illegal turnover. "If one can bet legally and get a rebate, who is going to take the risk on betting illegally then?" asked Engelbrecht-Bresges.

But there could be a great additional positive for racing and for Hong Kong through the export of its superior betting to other countries. In December 2004, Engelbrecht-Bresges used the platform of the Hong Kong International Races week to outline a five-year plan to make Hong Kong racing a popular bet with punters worldwide and the tax restructuring is integral to those plans.

"In a commercial sense, there are enormous positives. We are now branding Hong Kong racing from a world-wide perspective and, if we can offer our major bet types at a takeout rate of 10-12 per cent instead of 18 per cent, we will have the best wagering product in the world," Engelbrecht-Bresges said.

Foreign countries which operate betting on Hong Kong racing - Canada, the United States, Australia, New Zealand and Singapore - operate tiny domestic betting pools and pay the Jockey Club a small fee for the right.

A restructuring at this end would leave the Jockey Club with the commercial freedom to offer incentives to those foreign operators to accept bets which would then feed into the bigger Hong Kong betting pools with the prospect of considerable growth since the pools would offer more stability and possibly greater rewards. Punters in other countries, for example, could get the chance to participate in the Triple Trio in the knowledge of a huge dividend pool.

The only other jurisdiction receiving Hong Kong racing and betting into its pools is Macau, as tax issues have stymied export to other interested countries. The Macau link handles only $10 million a race meeting - a pittance - but the spread of Hong Kong betting to a wider audience has a blue sky element which is hard to estimate.

AwolAtHTR
9th April 2006, 11:46.33 PM
..if we can offer our major bet types at a takeout rate of 10-12 per cent instead of 18 per cent, we will have the best wagering product in the world," Engelbrecht-Bresges said..

maybe the USA tracks will take this clue and lower our takeout!!

if such a BUSINESS PLAN would work in Hong Kong, then why not USA? !!!

awol

tomcat
10th April 2006, 09:14.23 AM
Once again, betting pools that by-pass the people(farms, owners, trainers, barn workers, tracks) who create the product, will only hurt racing sooner or later.
If we like horse racing, shouldn't we protect horse racing? Or is it just about gambling? It seems to me that this is worth discussion. Of course, I could be wrong.

OPM
10th April 2006, 12:29.49 PM
Tomcat:
I don't understand your question, please elaborate and let's discuss. My thinking is as follows: The bettors keep the game going. The tax is too high, bettors are moving away to other avenues. If the tax is not lowered substantially, then, the game will stagnate and eventually die(Boston). Slot's is not the answer. The betting supports the farms, owners, etc. on the largest scale in my opinion. If the betting dries up as it is doing, eventually, everything else will follow. Now, some people might say that betting has gone from 8-15 billion in the last 15 yrs but this is not really growth in my opinion whereas Casino and lottery revenues has gone up 20-30x this amt. Frankly, there are too many races, too many racetracks, etc in my opinion. You only need to run at most 100 races/day in this country for 5 days/week and let the chips fall where they may.
I understand that owners, etc put a lot of money in the game but they do so for the most part as an investment. Look at Tabor, why buy a horse for $16 million when no horse in the history of the world has ever won $16 million on the track. Now, if he wins a couple of grade 1 as a 2 yr old, they will retire him and collect the winfall, which is great for them. However, if the horse is a dud, the bettors should not be the one who should bankroll their investment by having a higher take to support the farms, owners, etc.
Just one man's opinion.

tomcat
10th April 2006, 03:57.44 PM
We tend to focus on the few that are successful...most are not. Some years back at a conference, I remember the speaker saying that about half of all the horses bought at sales never make it to the race track, and of those that get there only about half ever win a race.
It's a tough business and many fail. Most are small timers who scratch by. The work regimine is horrendus. At the track at dawn, clean stables and horses, excercise and train horses, clean equipment, race the horse, etc. There are no days off, no vacations, little if any pay and health benefits? haha. They only money they make is from the racing. If there is no purse, there is no racing and no one gets paid.
Linda worked for Mr Young years ago and when one of his farms horses won the Derby, all the workers got a $100 bill.
You maybe right, maybe there are too many race tracks. Since we have simulcasting, we only need 1 track and we can all bet on the same race every day.
Myself, I like racing. Linda and I enjoy going to other tracks. Saratoga in August, Keeneland in the fall and spring and Churchill in the summer and Turfway in the winter. I like horses and would hate to see the species die out.

OPM
10th April 2006, 05:43.52 PM
Sure, I like going to the races too but I would be looking for another job if I had to get up at dawn 365 days/yr. It's a good game but maybe the time has passed for this game? If all racetracks were converted to slot parlors, you wouldn't have to get up at dawn, horses and jockeys would not die on track and maybe the world would be a better place for them. At the current rate, this might happen in the next 25 yrs. It's a hard way to make a living but no one is forcing it on these people, it's what they want to do. No one is forcing me to bet but I enjoy it but I am really ticked that 28% is withheld when I win big but I can't claim a tax deduction at the end of the yr if I lose big. Now, if the take was 10%, I will have a shot at winning and will probably bet a whole lot more and everyone may be better off. This is what all the studies show but every horsemen want to increase the takeout so they can get more money in the short term. Go figure.

tomcat
10th April 2006, 07:53.22 PM
I agree with a lot you say and the takeout is excessive. I just don't like sending our money to other countries. Maybe we should just export our bets because it's cheaper like we do everything else.
Howabout that, "outsource betting"

Have a good day.