Old School - Sartin Ratings Question

[Sheets Guy]

I was never a member of a Sartin group but began learning some of his methods in the early 90's before becoming an early MPH subscriber. In going through some of my old racing stuff, I recently re-discovered some of my Sartin materials.. For those more familiar with his methodology, I wondered what insights you could share about some of Sartin's more esoteric concepts like Factor W ("the strongest single rating factor we have ever devised"), adjusting average pace for class and track-to-track changes (something I've never seen talked about here but I know at least one HTR subscriber is doing) and some of his general methods re paceline selection.

It looks like Ken has expanded upon the best of the concepts for HTR, but I was curious as to what was left out and why.

Thanks,
Sheets Guy

[Houndog]

Factor W and AP (Average Pace) would be the same. Doc used the term Factor W which I believe meant Factor Win. In the Brohamer book MPH I think he mentioned this.

[Mark]

I was with the group from '92 on and can address some of your questions.

Factor W, whatever it was, evidentally never came to fruition to my knowledge. As to "the
greatest this or that", Mr. Sartin was given to hyperbole, as you surely know.

The AP class and track-to-track adjustments were crude and both dropped over time. They were replaced with the mantras "energy (AP) is class" and "the track (shipper) either belongs or not". Once Trackmaster became the data supplier, all lines were said to be track equalized, though there were many apparent inconsistencies.

Paceline selection was initially geared to comparable splits but became "best SR and TV of last three". Various vague scenarios were offered for when to waver.

Looking back, I think Doc Sartin's contributions had run their course by the time I joined. Nonetheless, I learned the pace rudiments and drew from the psychological approach.

Hope this helps and congratulations on your Vegas success.

[Sheets Guy]

Thanks for the responses, and the kind words about the tournament.

As to Factor W, 'Dog, you are right in that Brohamer refers to it as average pace in his book. But according to Sartin that wasn't the orignal factor W. The formula, which doesn't make much intuitive sense to me was:

(A x B) / 55

where A = (EP+FR3)/2 (i.e SP)
where B = EP

I'm not quite sure what this to supposed to represent but this is the original formula (Yellow Manual page 80). Average Pace (computed by summing Fr1,FR2 & FR3 and dividing by 3) is mentioned on page 79 of the same book.

Has anyone used his Pace of Horse vs Pace of Race method to evaluate form cycles? That seems like a pretty clever idea and one I've played around with in various forms over the years.

Thanks,
SG

[tbrown]

The 55 in Factor W was 55fps, some sort of norm, or average, I believe.
The POR/POH idea was cool. I still fvor horses coming out of better races - if two horses are close on Pac/Per, sat 101/100 and 100/99, I prefer the pne coming out of the race wtihthe better PAC number. Say the first horse lead in 101/100 and the other raced agains a 103/101, I give this one more credit even with a lower PER.

[ggpagels]

Ernie, chime in here. You have all those original Sartin publications.:D

[overdog]

55 DOES stand for 55 ft/sec. The reason he used it (I suspect) is that 55 feet per second, equates to 24 second quarters (37.5 miles/hr.)

24 second quarters could be called the "universal par" time, if there is one. Obviously its fairly slow for 1 or 2 quarters, but the farther you go at the same rate, the harder is it to maintain.

Many handicapping angles have been based on comparing a horse's final fraction, however far it actually is, converted to the 55 ft/sec rate.

overdog
a.k.a. Fraser Rawlinson

[ERNIE LOGSDON]

I haven't been reading this thread ...spending time in the contest.
I will look to see what I can find and post back here this week. <e>