HTR style harness race figures?

[Ron]

Does anyone know of any programs that will generate reliable running style, pace and position figures that can be used to handicap harness races?

Or, can you suggest a darn good harness race program\method?

Ron

[fmazur]

Ron: Just what are you looking for. There are or were a few good web sites that have or had what you may be looking for. They may be gone by now. I spent my first 10 years at Harness Hdcp. I switched to the T-breds 20 years ago. I had a program for Harness racing that I wrote myself. While it was very successful, I still switched. Harness racing for all practical purposes is and has been dead for 15 years. If you really want to pursue this I will check some of the old stuff I have. (I am a pack-rat and save everything) I had a db program that worked well at 5/8 and 1mi. tracks and another method that did well at 1/2 mile tracks.

[tbrown]

Originally posted by Ron
Does anyone know of any programs that will generate reliable running style, pace and position figures that can be used to handicap harness races?

Or, can you suggest a darn good harness race program\method?

Ron

Trackmaster harness PP's have pace and speed figures in them.
Bob Pandolpho slls a harness program.
His webpage is http://www.sharphorses.com/index.htm

[Ron]

Hi fmazur;

Thanks for your reply and offer.

I'm a TB capper as well and never really got into harness racing, but recently have been a casual observer of some harness action when the TB races are over for the day.

Just for fun, I applied some basic match up handicapping that I use for throughbreds and noticed that on the races I could decifer, I had the winner in my top 3-4 contenders most of the time and at some at decent mutuals.

I ignored all the stats on the program and just eyeballed the running styles, positions and times the horses have won or failed at to narrow down the contenders.
This seemed to give me a feel for who would take the lead and who could track and possibly overcome the leader(s)

It seemed to work pretty consistent on the races that I could get a feel for.
They were many that I couldn't get a handle on at all, but the ones that I felt good about ran well.

This led me to wonder if there are any programs out there that would allow me to analyze the harness cards in a similar fashion to the way I can with HTR.
EG: Quickly download the data, pick a paceline or paceline mode and then view or print the output that would allow me to see the running styles, and feet per second velocity ratings of the entrants.

Any ideas?

Thanks;

Ron

[George]

Ron,
Am not into harness but like you play a few late at night after TB racing shuts down. There is a website at www.simuhelp.com that has free harness ratings for most tracks. Not the download data you are seeking but an excellent rating service. Have made lots of $$ playing their selections.

[Glen]

Mr. Massa might have a take on this. Last time in Vegas he was whittling down some type of speed figs based on the PP of buggy races. Worked good enough for a $500 tri in one race.

[Gramps]

Before you get started on trying to apply thoroughbred principles to harness racing, let me advise you that it's a whole different ballgame.

The percentage of winning favorites is a lot higher.

The average mutuel is much lower.

Because almost all races are at a mile, and because the horses are being rated and on a fixed gait (pace or trot) instead of galloping, the standard pace methods don't work. It's not at all uncommon for a horse to pace the last half mile much faster than the first half mile.

If two horses engage in a speed duel to the half mile, it's likely that NEITHER one will be around at the finish, unlike thoroughbreds where the speed of the speed usually hangs around for at least a share.

Because the horses pull the drivers around in sulkies, horses don't go four and five across like they do at the thoroughbreds. It's very easy to get boxed in behind a quitter and lose a lot of ground, since there aren't holes for the horses to slip between competitors like thoroughbreds. For this reason also, driving ability and strategy is much more important in harness races than jockey ability is in thoroughbred.

Harness horsemen are more cliqueish than thoroughbreds, and they work toegether more than their thoroughbred horsemen counterparts do. So they are much more knowledge about their horses and their competitors, and they are more willing to 'do business' so that everybody can eat. In other words, to put it bluntly, they're much more crooked. And because harness racing has been on a steady decline for the past 25 years, the harness racing officials know that the horsemen have to cash bets to survive, and, with the possible exception of Meadowlands, they blatantly look the other way.

In other words, if you're planning on betting the harness, be aware that it's a whole different breed of cat. I played them myself for almost 20 years, and I finally gave up on it because the cheating was getting so bad.

[EE26]

Pandolfo is a good place to start. I am clueless when it comes to the Meadowlands, but I will bet his Meadowlands picks blindly in pick3 part wheels. I have cashed many nice pick 3s doing that. I play my local harness circuit on a regular basis. Having any sort of accurate pace numbers will give you a huge edge. Even just having a daily variant will give you an edge. I use both. The temperature outside has a big effect on final time, as does the pace of the race. People love to bet horses that appear to have fast last 1/4s in the program. People ignore the 1/2 and the 3/4 times. Big mistake.There are many opportunities out there for harness pace/speed figures.

[Ron]

George;

Thanks for the tip on the website. I'll check it out and let you know what I discover.


Ron

[Ron]

Glen;

Yes,...I do remember Ken telling me that he hit a nice 500.00 tri off a quicky spot play bet while at the Stardust race book. We chatted about so many things that I don't recall what
the method was. Perhaps it'll be revisited at the next seminar:)


Ron

[Ron]

Tbrown;

Thanks for the suggestion about Trackmaster. I've been so involved with HTR that I almost forgot about Trackmaster , BRIS and others.

I gave them a call about there harness race options, and they didn't have much to say other then they have just one 3rd party software program available that can be used with there data files. It's called Select Win and it's put out by Bsmith0041@cs.com

I'm not familiar with him, but I'll fire off an E-mail and see if he has anything close to what I may find usefull.

Ron

[Ron]

Gramps;

Thanks for your suggestions, comments and insights into the world of harness racing.

I'm a fairly well seasoned veteran at playing the throughbreds, but when it comes to the harness races, I could fit all I know into a thimble and still have some room left over :)

I plan to use whatever method I decide to settle on for recreational purposes only.
Sometimes after a good day playing the throughbreds we like sit back in the race book restaurant , order up some steaks and a couple beers and then spot play any one of 4 or 5 different harness tracks being offered. Heck,..if you like action, there's a race going off every 4 or 5 minutes.

I'll keep your thoughts in mind.

Ron

[Ron]

EE26;

Your remarks on the effects that internal fractions (incremental velocity) and outside temperatures can have on the outcome of horse races are ones that I tend to agree with as well.
I employ those principles in my throughbred handicapping procedures every day.

It sure can explain why some horses lose in slower final times then they recently won in. (Besides class or infirmity).

You're also the 2nd person to suggest testing out Pandolfo's program. I'll have to look into it and see if he has the goods.

Thanks for your reply.

Ron

[fmazur]

Ron: Just got back on to check the replys. I am quite surprised that so many on this board are very astute with Harness info. The answers you received should serve you well.