Gramps
4th September 2001, 03:22.14 PM
The following is a mixture of facts and views. The facts speak for themselves and are correct to the best of my knowledge as of the date of this post. The views are my own, based upon those facts and logical conclusions drawn therein. These views don't necessarilly represent the views of anybody else.
If you've visited the Paceadvantage board or elsewhere, you've probably seen two handicapping software products being talked about more than the others. One is HSH, which is owned by Dave Schwartz, and the other is HTR, which is owned by Ken Massa but which is freely shared. There are other programs discussed there and elsewhere, but none of the others have had any real support. I visited a lot of other sites and searched for reviews or user experiences of other software. It seemed to come back to a choice between HTR and HSH.
Here are some questions to consider when trying to decide which program is best, along with the answers I came up with:
Q: How much does the software cost?
HTR: It's free.
HSH: Currently $549, plus $14 for shipping and handling.
Q: How much are upgrades?
Analysis: If the programs were equal in ability, which one would you choose?
HTR: Currently, there are no plans to ever charge users for any upgrades which means that all future versions of the software will also be free.
HSH: It's generally understood that major upgrades will cost additional money (but to my knowledge, the amount isn't specified) and minor ones (e.g. bug fixes) will not.
Analysis: Again, if the programs were equal in ability, which one would you choose? To me, charging for major upgrades on a regular basis smacks of Sartin-ism (Howard Sartin's ploy was to put out a new piece of software or a new gadget about every six months and make members pay princely sums for all of them). What makes it worse is that the user has no idea how much the upgrades will cost.
Q: What is the cost of data?
HTR: $119 a month for unlimited downloads from Handicappers Data Warehouse.
HSH: $129 a month for unlimited downloads from Handicappers Data Warehouse.
Analysis: The extra $10 a month isn't terribly significant.
Q: How long has the software been around, and how many users have used the software for any length of time?
HTR: HTR has been in existence since at least 1994, and several users state that they have used the software for many years, some since its inception.
HSH: HSH has been available for less than a year. Nobody besides the owner has made any statements that I know of as to using the software for the whole time.
Analysis: It's a good sign if a program has been around for a long time and is still used by a lot of people, as HTR is. HSH is still too new to rate in this manner.
Q: What kind of support exists?
HTR: The owner offers extensive personal phone support (within reason) for users. Also, a seminar is held yearly in Las Vegas, in which many users attend.
HSH: The owner says that he offers support for users. I can't verify that since I don't own a copy of the software.
Q: Is there a forum (message board) on which to discuss the software and its use?
HTR: You're on it. Several posts are made daily. In addition, you'll find an archive of previous posts that answer a lot of questions users and prospective users may have. Anybody can surf in and read every post.
HSH: The forum that is open to the public is rather barren, with the main poster being the owner. A private forum supposedly exists, but it's only open to those who own the software.
Q: What kind of user (peer) support support exists?
HTR: There are at least a dozen users here who will answer questions posted on this board. Turnaround is often less than an hour and almost always less than a day. In addition, many of them will offer email or phone support to other users. And a few of them have written, or have had written, their own programs or scripts, many of which are freely shared with others who may want them. I've found plenty of users willing to spend time and make an effort to help.
HSH: I don't know of any peer support at all.
Q: How many real-life satisfied users are there?
HTR: If you look around here and on the Paceadvantage board, you'll find about a dozen different people who have expressed their satisfaction regarding HTR. Many state that they make money betting, and many state that they are longtime users.
HSH: I have heard testimonials from exactly two users, one of whom jumps to a different program every year or two.
Q: How easy is the software to use?
HTR: The software is easy to use, but learning to use the software to handicap sucessfully is said to take time and patience. That would be true of any decent handicapping software. There are no black boxes out there that work, and you have to put in the time to get the results.
HSH: The software is supposedly complicated, with a steep learning curve involved.
Q: How flexible is the software as to personal handicapping tastes?
HTR: Very. HTR has many screens of information and many factors, numbers, and ratings to choose from. Almost any user will find things that suit his or her style. A track modeller exists to model individual tracks and will tell the user how the many different factors are doing at each track in terms of win percent, ROI, etc. . This modeller has user-defined filters for very specfic queries. A program exists to make Ragozin-style sheets, or one can study velocity handicapping or any of numerous other factors.
HSH: The program's screen shot features many many buttons, each of which supposedly perform a function. Each function isn't necesarilly easy to understand, and it's compounded by the lack of documentation to explain what's going on.
Q: What about databases?
HTR: The modeller includes an "all tracks" function, but most serious database users use Microsoft Access. A program exists to export the various factors produced by the HTR programs to an Access database. The user can pick and choose which tracks are exported to that database from the 30 to 40 available in North America. The user can set up the database in whatever way he or she sees fit. Admittedly, this requires owning and knowing how to use Access, but a whole section of this message board is dedicated to Access, as well as some user-written help files and an archive of Access posts.
HSH: The database is located on the HSH site, and the downloads include data that the program chose from the database. In other words, the user has no control over what is in the database. The author is planning an upgrade (currently in beta testing) for the user to develop his or her own database.
Q: Does a demo exist so that the user can test-drive the software?
HTR. All of the programs are freely downloadable from this web site. All are fully functional, although you obviously have to have HDW racefiles to use them. Sample racefiles exist for the user to play around with, and the owner will often send prospective users a few files of actual next-day racecards so that they can use the software in real time.
HSH: There is no demo of the program. If you want to see it in action, you have to pay the $549 + $14 for it. This is one of the reasons I've used "supposedly" so often when discussing the program. There is no known way to test HSH without buying it.
Q: Has anybody who uses the software actually posted a few picks before the races were run?
HTR: Some users post plays regularly here and over on the Paceadvantage board, and a few of them have shown a profit over 100 or more races.
HSH: I have yet to see a single selection posted by an HSH user anywhere. If they exist, I don't know about them.
For me the choice was clear:
HTR: It's free, it's customizable, flexible to my needs, and support is plentiful. The software is available to test-drive before any money is invested. The owner is helpful, a lot of users are quite visible and eager to help others, programs and scripts were written by users and shared freely with others, there's an open BBS where people discuss things and answer questions. The only ongoing cost is for the HDW data files ($119 a month, of which the owner obviously gets a share, but hey: the owner is entitled to something). And it's been around for seven years.
HSH: It costs $545, you can't access the bulletin board until you're a member, upgrades cost extra, there aren't many visible users, the program tells you what data you get and use, and it's not particularly well documented. As with HTR, there is an ongoing cost for data (which is true of any program that uses downloadable files), that cost being $129 a month.
The bottom line with me was that HTR was established, out in the open and candid in nature with a helpful owner and a lot of friendly real life users, while HSH was new, seemingly shrouded in secrecy and ambiguity, with few known real-life users. On top of that, HTR was free and HSH cost $549.
You're free to draw your own conclusions, but the above was my take on the issue.
If you've visited the Paceadvantage board or elsewhere, you've probably seen two handicapping software products being talked about more than the others. One is HSH, which is owned by Dave Schwartz, and the other is HTR, which is owned by Ken Massa but which is freely shared. There are other programs discussed there and elsewhere, but none of the others have had any real support. I visited a lot of other sites and searched for reviews or user experiences of other software. It seemed to come back to a choice between HTR and HSH.
Here are some questions to consider when trying to decide which program is best, along with the answers I came up with:
Q: How much does the software cost?
HTR: It's free.
HSH: Currently $549, plus $14 for shipping and handling.
Q: How much are upgrades?
Analysis: If the programs were equal in ability, which one would you choose?
HTR: Currently, there are no plans to ever charge users for any upgrades which means that all future versions of the software will also be free.
HSH: It's generally understood that major upgrades will cost additional money (but to my knowledge, the amount isn't specified) and minor ones (e.g. bug fixes) will not.
Analysis: Again, if the programs were equal in ability, which one would you choose? To me, charging for major upgrades on a regular basis smacks of Sartin-ism (Howard Sartin's ploy was to put out a new piece of software or a new gadget about every six months and make members pay princely sums for all of them). What makes it worse is that the user has no idea how much the upgrades will cost.
Q: What is the cost of data?
HTR: $119 a month for unlimited downloads from Handicappers Data Warehouse.
HSH: $129 a month for unlimited downloads from Handicappers Data Warehouse.
Analysis: The extra $10 a month isn't terribly significant.
Q: How long has the software been around, and how many users have used the software for any length of time?
HTR: HTR has been in existence since at least 1994, and several users state that they have used the software for many years, some since its inception.
HSH: HSH has been available for less than a year. Nobody besides the owner has made any statements that I know of as to using the software for the whole time.
Analysis: It's a good sign if a program has been around for a long time and is still used by a lot of people, as HTR is. HSH is still too new to rate in this manner.
Q: What kind of support exists?
HTR: The owner offers extensive personal phone support (within reason) for users. Also, a seminar is held yearly in Las Vegas, in which many users attend.
HSH: The owner says that he offers support for users. I can't verify that since I don't own a copy of the software.
Q: Is there a forum (message board) on which to discuss the software and its use?
HTR: You're on it. Several posts are made daily. In addition, you'll find an archive of previous posts that answer a lot of questions users and prospective users may have. Anybody can surf in and read every post.
HSH: The forum that is open to the public is rather barren, with the main poster being the owner. A private forum supposedly exists, but it's only open to those who own the software.
Q: What kind of user (peer) support support exists?
HTR: There are at least a dozen users here who will answer questions posted on this board. Turnaround is often less than an hour and almost always less than a day. In addition, many of them will offer email or phone support to other users. And a few of them have written, or have had written, their own programs or scripts, many of which are freely shared with others who may want them. I've found plenty of users willing to spend time and make an effort to help.
HSH: I don't know of any peer support at all.
Q: How many real-life satisfied users are there?
HTR: If you look around here and on the Paceadvantage board, you'll find about a dozen different people who have expressed their satisfaction regarding HTR. Many state that they make money betting, and many state that they are longtime users.
HSH: I have heard testimonials from exactly two users, one of whom jumps to a different program every year or two.
Q: How easy is the software to use?
HTR: The software is easy to use, but learning to use the software to handicap sucessfully is said to take time and patience. That would be true of any decent handicapping software. There are no black boxes out there that work, and you have to put in the time to get the results.
HSH: The software is supposedly complicated, with a steep learning curve involved.
Q: How flexible is the software as to personal handicapping tastes?
HTR: Very. HTR has many screens of information and many factors, numbers, and ratings to choose from. Almost any user will find things that suit his or her style. A track modeller exists to model individual tracks and will tell the user how the many different factors are doing at each track in terms of win percent, ROI, etc. . This modeller has user-defined filters for very specfic queries. A program exists to make Ragozin-style sheets, or one can study velocity handicapping or any of numerous other factors.
HSH: The program's screen shot features many many buttons, each of which supposedly perform a function. Each function isn't necesarilly easy to understand, and it's compounded by the lack of documentation to explain what's going on.
Q: What about databases?
HTR: The modeller includes an "all tracks" function, but most serious database users use Microsoft Access. A program exists to export the various factors produced by the HTR programs to an Access database. The user can pick and choose which tracks are exported to that database from the 30 to 40 available in North America. The user can set up the database in whatever way he or she sees fit. Admittedly, this requires owning and knowing how to use Access, but a whole section of this message board is dedicated to Access, as well as some user-written help files and an archive of Access posts.
HSH: The database is located on the HSH site, and the downloads include data that the program chose from the database. In other words, the user has no control over what is in the database. The author is planning an upgrade (currently in beta testing) for the user to develop his or her own database.
Q: Does a demo exist so that the user can test-drive the software?
HTR. All of the programs are freely downloadable from this web site. All are fully functional, although you obviously have to have HDW racefiles to use them. Sample racefiles exist for the user to play around with, and the owner will often send prospective users a few files of actual next-day racecards so that they can use the software in real time.
HSH: There is no demo of the program. If you want to see it in action, you have to pay the $549 + $14 for it. This is one of the reasons I've used "supposedly" so often when discussing the program. There is no known way to test HSH without buying it.
Q: Has anybody who uses the software actually posted a few picks before the races were run?
HTR: Some users post plays regularly here and over on the Paceadvantage board, and a few of them have shown a profit over 100 or more races.
HSH: I have yet to see a single selection posted by an HSH user anywhere. If they exist, I don't know about them.
For me the choice was clear:
HTR: It's free, it's customizable, flexible to my needs, and support is plentiful. The software is available to test-drive before any money is invested. The owner is helpful, a lot of users are quite visible and eager to help others, programs and scripts were written by users and shared freely with others, there's an open BBS where people discuss things and answer questions. The only ongoing cost is for the HDW data files ($119 a month, of which the owner obviously gets a share, but hey: the owner is entitled to something). And it's been around for seven years.
HSH: It costs $545, you can't access the bulletin board until you're a member, upgrades cost extra, there aren't many visible users, the program tells you what data you get and use, and it's not particularly well documented. As with HTR, there is an ongoing cost for data (which is true of any program that uses downloadable files), that cost being $129 a month.
The bottom line with me was that HTR was established, out in the open and candid in nature with a helpful owner and a lot of friendly real life users, while HSH was new, seemingly shrouded in secrecy and ambiguity, with few known real-life users. On top of that, HTR was free and HSH cost $549.
You're free to draw your own conclusions, but the above was my take on the issue.