the @ home ISP provider in trouble

[MikeDee]

Doesn't sound to good for users of @ home. Looks like they may go under. Those of you that use them may need to get ready to switch providers. Saw an article in the paper this morning that one of their lenders is calling a note and could force them into bankrupcy.

[Donnie]

I've been following this closely as well, Mike. Turns out they don't have the operating capital to get thru the end of the year, even if they dodge this bullet. Read somewhere they lost 7 Billion last year...that's a chunk of change! I just re-established my dial-up account onto my home system last night. Am going to call this afternoon to see if the local cable company has a contingency plan! 3 million subscribers and they can't make it work...go figure!

[JAH]

Are there any online articles you know of that discuss their plight?

[hurrikane]

interesting Mike. Funny thing is..the friggin thing only works half the time for me anyway. I've had to keep a dial up to be sure I could get on when they go out. Cable company screwed I guess.

[Donnie]

Try these links:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010820/aponline180329_000.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010827/aponline172853_000.htm

[JAH]

Donnie,

Thank you.

[MikeDee]

I'm no expert but cable modems response varies by the number of users on your leg of the circuit. So if a lot of people are on line downloading stuff at the same time they can slow down pretty good.

DSL on the other hand are are homeruns to the central office and don't have a load problem. DSL providers are going out of business left and right to.

They are a pain the ass to deal with but the telco's are still the best with if you want something that works and will be around longer then 10 minutes.

[Bruce]

I'm pretty familiar with this company.
Their problems have absolutely NOT been the cable company's fault. @Home's problems are all their own making. Another example of people blaming cable companies for everything but the Johnstown Flood (no, I don't work for a cable company.)
@Home's original executives were more interested in their stock price than in building a sturdy and reliable network. I was an @Home subscriber a few years back and their service was awful. Very slow. The company just didn't build a strong enough backbone to support all their users. They signed up users by the boatload but didn't build the corresponding network.
The biggest problem was @Home's purchase of the Excite Web portal at a time when everyone thought portals were going to rule the world. Of course they wildly overpaid for what turned out to be a worthless service and never quite recovered.
Anyway, their capital costs in the last few years have been astronomical as they have been under intense pressure from cable operators to upgrade their networks. The cable modem business hasn't grown as much as people thought -- People are happy paying $20 for 56K service rather than $40-$45 for higher speeds, especially since many get high speed Web service at the office.
Cable modem service is popular but penetration is in the low teens not the 20s as companies had thought. DSL service lags far behind cable service because the phone companies don't care about it. It's very expensive to support DSL and the phone companies would rather provide long distance service than DSL. You wait weeks for an appointment to get it installed, the service costs more than cable modems (about $10 a month) and is often much slower.
Yes, there is one advantage: DSL has a dedicated line in that you get the same speeds no matter how many other people in your neighborhood are online.
However, that problem has been terribly overstated. Cable operators have the ability when their modem service starts to slow down to cut their nodes in half or quarters so that users get access to more bandwidth.

Users of @Home will not be left at loose ends. Someone will take over the network and service them. Of course, no one's quite sure how yet.

bruce

[MikeDee]

I think any of these companies that think that people are going to get it just becase its' faster have found out that it not the case. People need a reason to fool with the upgrade. In my case I have a second tel line and internet for horse racing. I was happy as long as I could get the now defunct TRNn to watch the races at home. Now that the internet is the only available option for video I am considering DSL.
I don't agree with you Bruce that the telcos' don't care. I think there is a mix of how much they are into DSL some more then others. They don't just want long distance, they want it all LD and high speed data. They never move fast but I know that the SBC telcos have spent billions to upgrade there networks for DSL and it is now available in a number of locations. They have started a big advertising campain in the papers and on TV.

The rate is $49 a month which includes the internet connection I'm paying 25 for a second line and 20 for internet so it's almost a wash. I'm thinking of pulling the plug on my current provder and the second line and going with DSL

The other thing is I like the idea of having a stand alone service. If I go with a cable modem this pretty much locks me in to my cable provider. In my area we have 2 cable providers and I may want to go with a dish, I like having options. If I go with a cable modem and I want to change cable providers now I would have to change my internet provider as well.

[fred4now]

Mike.
that is exactly the reason I went with DSL 2 years ago. Had extra phone line and dial up bill, about same as DSL. I have had only one time I couldnt't connect in 2 years and it was my network card. I don't really notice the difference till I download somewere else like a hotel. I can download all tracks for a sat. in 30 seconds.

[JAH]

I've had an @home cable connection for the last 8 months now and I have a hard time imagining being without it. I have had excellent service/performance and because there apparently aren't many in my neighborhood with a connection, I consistently average outrageous connect speeds(1.5M and higher). I hope Bruce is right when he says that someone will take over the network if they do go under.

[Carl]

Saw this "positive" story, thought I would pass it on.
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2809002,00.html?chkpt=zdhpnews01

later,
Carl

[hurrikane]

Bruce,
in my case it has been about half and half. I have had the cable isp since May1...took them 31/2 weeks to get me into the database and get me turned on....during this time they tried to charge me for the service saying I had called to get hooked up, it's not thier fault I didn't get turned on. That is rediculous..I couldn't believe they were saying that. Finally a manager straightened it out.
Since then it has gone out 4 times...once for a week and half. twice was cables fault 11/2 weeks was @home. Frankly when it works it is great..but I can't do 'when it works'.

Mike,
I had the phone and isp..it was a wash on the cost when I changed. Occured to me afterwards..you can't get on if you are not at home using your cable. In otherwords...no laptop hookup somewhere else without a dialup service. So, looks like I'm still stuck with the dialup even if the cable gets thier crap right.

[jetcity]

I think we are missing the boat here. Yes, At home (ATHM) is in trouble and bleeding cash. A lot of the problems can be attributed to the Web Protal Excite portion of the business. I have had the service for a year and 1/2 with no problems. Will this company file for Banko. Probably, but that doesn't mean that there will be a suspension of service. Emergency web access - Just in case, don't throw away the AOL disks that are flooding the mail boxes this week . Makes an excellant temporary provider for 45 DAYS and it is FREE.

jetcity

[Glen]

Yeah, I thought my wireless internet provider would have some one pick up their services when they went belly up as well. Ricochet had 128 speed access. That is incredible technology when you consider the other options are 19K speed or 9.8K speed for the same price. @Home is a much larger than Ricochet so I imagine that someone will pick them up.

On a side note, about 2 years ago when DSL/Cable was first available, it was about $50/month. Back then I figured about a year or two after it was out and the technology paid for itself that the prices would drop to about $20/month...No such luck. Heck, even those fee ISP are no longer in business or are now charging...AOL increased their price form monthly service...Sad but true, if it wasn't for *ORN (since it at one time was responsible for about 50% plus of the eCommerce/$$$ spent on the net) on the net we may not have an internet as cheap and user friendly today.

Well in case the internet doesn't work out we can always go back to carrier pigeons...

[Donnie]

Hate to sound down, but I don't think ANYONE wants to pick up a dot-com that lost $7 BILLION last year. I don't see the service continuing on a "grand" scale, but I think you will see pockets of cable providers still able to maintain service over their local systems.

Why do you think ATT owns only 23% of the company?? We currently are paying our internet access bill at the last minute, cause they bill for the up-coming month...and we surely don't want to pay for something that may not be there tomorrow.

On a local note--- I know of a computer tech company that shuttered and when they did they did not even bother to go around and collect the computers they had out on lease with different companies. They just wrote the entire thing off as a loss!! They closed so hard and fast, there was no where to send a leasing check, nor was a phone available to ask them to pick up their computers!! Amazing!! Wish I had been leasing from them!!

So....where do you want to go today?? (-Microsoft ad slogan)

[MikeDee]

HK-been thinking about that to. The SBC has a partnership with prodigy. DSL from SBC internet access from prodigy. one bill for the DSL and internet. Pretty sure that as a prodigy customer I can use their local dial up numbers when I travel with my dial up modem in the laptop, but this is someting I need to confirm before I order the service.

Donnie - you are sure right about how fast they close up. TRN was the same way your July invoice is for August service. TRN closed shop at the end of August so if you are a good boy and pay your bills by the due date, you got ripped off for $30. Paid for August and no service and no company to complain to. So 12,000 customers * 30 bucks thats $360,000. Capone was a crook, but he used a gun!

[Bruce]

Donnie,
I guarantee you the cable companies will make sure that the @Home customers get picked up. Now it may not be the smoothest transition in the world for a few weeks, but in the end, @Home customers will be OK. Just make sure you demand credits for whenever the service is out. Cable companies are very sensitive to customer service issues nowadays and if you threaten to go to DSL, they'll respond. Nothing like competition.

Telcos have absolutely put DSL on back burner. Believe me I follow this stuff for a living. The margins just aren't there. That's why they've been raising the price even though they were more expensive than cable to begin with. (By the same token when DSL raised their price that enabled AT&T to raise the price of @Home. Nothing like an oligopoly. But AT&T really really needs money. That is one screwed up company.)



bruce

[Donnie]

Carl,
All I had to read in that "positive story" was this...."...Given Mack's background as a CEO and business leader before joining the Clinton administration...." and I knew something fishy was up!! Really now, how many CEO's and business leaders joined Clinton's Administration?? I mean REAL CEO's and business leaders???
(Sorry if any one took offense to this post, but I did get a good chuckle out of that line!!)
Now @Home subscribers have something to really worry about!!

As Carl would say..."Later"

Donnie

[tomcat]

I think the problem is solved! @Home just notified me of a $5 a month increase.

[hurrikane]

now that's the american way...cut service..raise prices. Oh boy!

[Bruce]

Originally posted by tomcat
I think the problem is solved! @Home just notified me of a $5 a month increase.

Tomcat, are you an AT&T customer? The rate increases come from the cable company, not @Home. AT&T recently announced they were raising their rates on the @Home service by $5. Why?
1. AT&T needs money more than a 3rd world country. Deep deep debt.
2. Phone companies selling DSL service raised their rates allowing AT&T to do the same for cable modems. As I said before the phone companies feel DSL's profit margins are too slim to really invest much time and money into the service. (Oh, they'll give it lip service, but that's for the federal and state goverment's ears.)

If you are not AT&T (Lexington, is that Insight Cable?), then other cable companies might also be raising rates for the same reason. If business is good, maybe they feel they can raise rates and generate more revenues. It's the American way. That's called capitalism -- assuming they have competition in your town. But that's a whole 'nother long story.

Bruce.

[MikeDee]

Saw this on a Yahoo board today....does anybody know if it is true..Are cable companies making other arragements for their customers?

@home cable ends...
by:
Msg: 6389 of 6390

on Friday! How many of the 14,000 Youbet subscribers are on cable. Youbet sucks on AOL!

[Bruce]

Unfortunately, there is a possibility that some customers of @Home might be cut off until
the cable operators can build out their networks and replace their @Home
infrastructure.
The cable operators are not very happy about it because they will lose
millions of dollars in revenue so don't blame them. Basically @Home ran its
business into the ground -- one of the most spectacular flops of all time. It would
make a great book and Harvard Business School case study. (If I had any guts, I'd
write the damn thing myself.)

Anyway, now, the @Home bond holders are pretty pissed off because they're going
to get stiffed. The only leverage they have is to pull the plug on the service unless
they get a better settlement. AT&T, which controls @Home, is in no financial
condition itself to bail out the bondholders. So.....
The cable companies are furiously working to build out their own networks to keep
their customers on line but it could take a while to finish.

I was an @Home customers about 4 years ago and can tell you the service stunk.
Most people tell me it still does. THe company put very few resources into its network and most of it into building out as fast it could so they could get as many customers as
possible as quickly as possible. The initial investors cashed out and got rich. Everyone else --
well, that's life in the big financial markets.
The proverbial straw was @Home's merger with Excite when everyone thought portals and
exclusive content were going to rule the Internet. Of course, this was near the height of
the Internet craziness and @Home overpaid and could never recover from that massive
debt. AT&T bought out control of the company from its cable partners last year.

A sad story and a perfect example of how corporate bloodsuckers who started the company raped the shareholders. I'm no socialist but after hearing stories like these, you can't
blame people who think capitalism stinks.

Bruce

[Shadow]

Hi Guys, I also was paying for an extra line and ISP. Don't know if RoadRunner is available in your areas. RR is a subsiderary of Time Warner Cable. Cost is $50.00 per month, and is faster than dsl.

On another note I enjoyed TRN, and was one of those that paid a month in advance which was lost. Is anyone useing TVG, and if so what do you think of it, and what is the cost, and which tracks do they do.

Shadow

[Bruce]

Road Runner is generally not available in areas where @Home was sold since
time Warner (and also formerly MediaOne, which is now AT&T Broadband, so some
ex-customers of mediaOne might be Road Runner customers -- get it? )
is the only cable operator to sell Road Runner. That ISP will not go out of business.

Cable modems are much better than DSL lines in terms of speed and quality and
generally cheaper. of course if you had a bad experience with cable - -or
this is none in your area -- you will likely choice DSL.



bruce

[Bernie]

When I go the Road Runner website and search for availability in my area, it comes back saying it is available through Cox@home. This is tied to the Excite home network, if I'm not mistaken.

The TVG website is www.tvgnetwork.com. Their coverage is limited at present to the Echo Star Dish network, Superstar/Netlink/Turnervision, and cable systems in KY.

[Bruce]

Road Runner is generally not available in areas where @Home was sold since
time Warner (and also formerly MediaOne, which is now AT&T Broadband, so some
ex-customers of mediaOne might be Road Runner customers -- get it? )
is the only cable operator to sell Road Runner. That ISP will not go out of business.

Cable modems are much better than DSL lines in terms of speed and quality and
generally cheaper. of course if you had a bad experience with cable - -or
this is none in your area -- you will likely choice DSL.



bruce

[REBel]

I just subscribed to @home cable about 3 weeks ago. There was no mention of any upcoming service problems. They continue to advertise their service on TV.

I received a letter from them 3 days ago, part of which is quoted below. I am amazed at the dl speeds and quickness from site to site. I purchased my own modem and am paying $35.95 per month. I'll be very disappointed if the service folds.

"As you may be aware, Excite@Home, our service provider, recently
filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy. In order to continue providing
you the quality and reliable high-speed cable Internet service
that you expect, AT&T has submitted a proposal to purchase the
Excite@Home network. If AT&T is able to purchase and manage the
Excite@Home network, there will be no immediate change to your
current service. If the network purchase is approved, we will
notify you via your AT&T@Home email account as soon as possible.

"As a precautionary measure, AT&T Broadband also has been building
its own network and service in the event that AT&T is unable to
purchase the Excite@Home network. If the proposal to purchase the
Excite@Home network is not approved, your service may be temporarily
interrupted and it will be necessary to move your service to a new
AT&T Broadband network.

"In any event, AT&T Broadband is deeply committed to providing you
the best cable Internet service possible and communicating any
upcoming changes. Be sure to frequently check the "Announcements
and Updates" section of our Web site for the latest information
about your service:"

Hope this is helpful to you.

REBel

[Bruce]

Looks like they are trying to come up with a compromise. @Home customers might be
OK after all. WOuld be a disaster for cable companies if @home went out. But @home
bondholders must be protected as well.
Please email me or post individual experiences with@home to stiller41@hotmail.com

Thanks

Bruce.

[JAH]

I was off line all day yesterday while AT&T migrated me and all other @home customers to their new network. This morning I turned on my computer and-voila- I was directed to a page which enabled me to reconfigure all necessary settings and resume my AT&T cable service. I was fortunate to be among those customers in the first set of states they are migrating, so I was only off line for a day. The transition to their network was relatively easy and the service seems a bit faster than before. I'm quite pleased with the ease of the tranistion and the diligence of AT&T in pulling this off.

[REBel]

In Iowa, at least the Des Moines area, we were off-line approximately 9 hours on Saturday, from 10 a.m. to 7 p.m.

A recorded message at Mediacom, our provider, told me email would be up late Saturday afternoon and net services later in the evening. They met goals. Rumor has it the plug on Mediacom was pulled inadvertently.

Anyway, all is well in Iowa. Sunny, 57 degrees, more of the same tomorrow, I'm online and PRM is simulcasting. Life is good.

Best Holiday Wishes to all.

REBel