HTR vs HSH

[Gambler844]

Im trying to figure out the difference between them. Any help or advise would be appreciated.

[JimG]

Gee, I wonder which one will be more popular with this board? <g>

Jim

[cmcofer]

Anyone:

I have read quite a bit about HTR... here and on the HTR website

Where can I find info about HSH? Does it have a website?

Thanks,

[Carl]

Cliff,

Check Paceadvantage's site, Dave Schwartz who posts there owns HSH.

I am sure he will be glad to tell you anything you want to know.

later,
Carl

[jackad]

Try www.horsestreet.com

[RonTiller]

Dave Schwartz's website is:

www.horsestreet.com

Ron Tiller

[hurrikane]

differences....
among other things, the $800.00 cost for HSH

[cmcofer]

Thanks, everyone, for pointing me to the HSH website. That website (and the one featuring HTR) are very helpful in my search for a new handicapping program.

This is a very good msg board and, once you get the hang of how to massage it, it's quite easy to use.

[JimG]

Originally posted by hurrikane
differences....
among other things, the $800.00 cost for HSH

Actually, the cost is $563, including shipping.

Jim

[George]

Jim,
What is the cost for data download from either or
both download services?

Also what is the charge for report file updates and how often are they updated?

[hurrikane]

My appologies Jim and Dave ( who I have talked to and is a great guy)...the price must have come down since last year.

[Gambler844]

Doesnt anyone know the difference or doesnt anyone know enough to help me?

[JimG]

George, Gambler, and everyone else. I think it is best to discuss what is included or not included in HSH on the HSH bulletin board. Dave Schwartz will be happy to answer any questions he can. Since this is an HTR board and I feel HTR is a great product, I am not comfortable discussing HSH at length on this board.

The HSH address is horsestreet.com. Read it thoroughly, including the BBS and many of your questions are answered. There is a good user group there...as is here..to answer questions you may have.

Jim

[MikeH]

I think that some of the users here are away at the Orleans Handicapping tournament.

I don't use either; I'm more familiar with HTR because I have met Ken, and prior to that, Tom Brohamer, and I have looked at the demos for both MPH and HTR. What I know about HSH is mostly by surfing their Web site.

I think that anyone wanting a comparison would be wise to do their own; my sense is that both are high quality products with excellent support, and, ultimately, your choice depends a lot on your own style of handicapping.

However, both are complex products that require significant effort, and, if one isn't willing to put in the effort to look at both, one probably won't be happy with either in the long run...

[George]

Gambler,
I am not an HSH user but from reading their website think it uses composite's of factors,
many of which are not pace related. Appears to "model" those composite factors in
a race report database. The model is static until periodic updates are sent out.

Htr is primarily a pace analysis tool which also builds "models" with the difference
being the HTR model can be updated daily by the user.

Which is "best" depends upon your handicapping style. Either system will
probably produce in the hands of someone who has done their homework.

[Slider]

George:

I am currently using HSH and the difference you mentioned no longer applies. HSH Pro is an extention of the basic HSH program and it has a database that is updated daily by the user with a few mouse clicks. HSH Pro is in first phase beta right now and does not show up on the website home page. As is true of most HSH stuff the program moves much faster that its documentation. The program is updated monthly and new stuff keeps popping up.

Gambler:
I agree with JimG that this is not the place to discuss HSH. However, IT is the place to discuss HTR.

HTR users:
I know almost nothing about your program. Just what I read on the board at PA's. Not much there about the workings of HTR. I have dabbled with the old Modern Pace Handicapping program that I hear HTR is based upon. Is this true? What are the strengths of HTR? How does it compare to all the other pace progams on the market? How long is the learning curve? I have never tried HTR because I hate Access and heard that is a must for success with HTR. Is that true?
HSH is capable of multiple models now and I would like to know how well models have worked for you all. Are models a big assisstance to the handicaping puzzle? When using models what are the problems that should be watched out for?

[ERNIE2]

Gambler844: you ask "Doesn't anyone know the differance or doesn't anyone know enough to help me?"

My answer is no "I" don't know the difference,and if I did could I help you.....yes I'm going to.
It is not my place to speak for Ken Massa,but if you will read his last post on this bbs/website you will see that he has been in Las Vegas the past few days and states that he will return on Tue. of next week...........the help I'm going to offer is to contact him at "KMSOFT@EARTHLINK.NET with your questions..........he is the only one that knows when there might be a promotion to let you try the htr software for a few days or with uptodate racefiles that you can compare the other program with/to........he has been very helpfu to new customers in the past even to the point of paying for the files so someone could try the program..........what the other program owners will do for you I don't know.....you didn't say if you already had the other program or not........ :) :) ;)
Do contact Ken he is the one that can help you with "HTR SOFTWARE"
LATER,ERNIE LOGSDON 707-762-9762

[MikeDee]

Gambler
The only things I know about HSH is whats posted on their web site. So I don't know enough to respond.

If you haven't already I would get the copies of the software from the website and the sample data files and try it out and form your own opinions. HTR does not give you a list of horses to bet. It takes PP data picks a pace line and computes pace figures, and static figures like power, performance and K ratings. It providea host of other figures like the Cramer Speed rating and others to numerous to mention.

From this informatioin you must make the selections, you handicapp from this. The HTR program has a built in modeler and you can take your htr files run them through the modeler and do some modeling of past data. No data base experience or knowledge required.

As far as I know the majority of HTR users do not use a Access data base, unfortunalely most of the frequent posters on this board do and I can see where you might get the idea that you have to use Access that's not the case.

Ken does provide a extract from HTR that can be used as the input file for data bases. This is NOT PP data it is the HTR factors and figures that you see on the HTR screens. Those of us with dbs do our own analysis and modeling of htr data and develop spot plays. (keeps us of the streets). Ken(HTR software) does not support data base users we are on our own and use this board to support one another.

[MikeDee]

Slider,
I have dabbled with the old Modern Pace Handicapping program that I hear HTR is based upon. Is this true? read the mph thread page 1 Ken Massa's 8/13 post
What are the strengths of HTR? accurate figures, easy to use, best product support of any product, period How does it compare to all the other pace progams on the market? don't even have a clue as to what all the other programs are...how does HSH compare to all other programs on the market? How long is the learning curve? Just to run the program and see reports? about 15 min
I have never tried HTR because I hate Access and heard that is a must for success with HTR. Is that true? where did you hear this. not true many of the most sucessful HTR members don't use access HSH is capable of multiple models
so is HTR I would like to know how well models have worked for you all. Are models a big assisstance to the handicaping puzzle? When using models what are the problems that should be watched out for? I am sure you have read all of the pros and cons about modeling on the PA board and other boards. All of them apply to any modeling. What works on old data may or may not work on a going forward basis. Watch out for small samples and a few big winners that skew ROI's

[Slider]

Thank you.

[MtKen]

Slider:

Sorry I have taken so long to reply to this, but I've been on vacation. I bought HSH last year & fooled with it for several months but didn't like the lack of DB capabilities. Apparently they have something of that nature now.

The HSH program is now probably light years removed from what it was then so I don't really feel like I can comment on it's current state. One thing that really turned me off was the introduction of the magazine/newsletter for (IMO) big bucks.

I also used Always for awhile but got tired of spending $400-$500 monthly to bring in a few tracks.

Personally I believe HTR is the best bargain in handicapping software on the market. It may not have the bells & whistles of some big $ programs but the numbers are as good--except for sire numbers, as KM has mentioned himself. I also, much prefer the HTR "corporate culture" compared to the others. KM always returns his e-mails, etc. & is always helpful & cordial even if there is a difference of opinion. I don't feel like a $ sign in his eyes.

That's my opinion, I've no desire to go on other boards & get into pissing matches with users of other stuff but since you asked here I thought I'd reply.

Of course, the most helpful handicappers on the net are here too.

Ken

[hurrikane]

you're welcome slider....funny you did not mention what an advocate of HSH you are...as seen on the PA board....I would humbly ask that Dave..and you..post your successes and your losses as we do here at HTR....otherwise...what is to gain by any of us?

Slider...don't take this as an some kind of an attack..it is NOT meant that way,...everyone here as far as I know, will discuss the ups AND the DOWNS...so lets not play coy.

[Citizen Kane]

hurrikane,

Touche.

[Carl]

Originally posted by Slider
George:

I am currently using HSH and.................

I think he was upfront about that. The first line of his post admits to being a HSH user, and he goes on later to say that "this is not the place to discuss HSH", which I also agree with.

And Slider has been posting at PA's board almost since it's inception, and he has never posted horses before a race to the best of my knowledge, even before he started using HSH. So I don't hold that against him either. Some of us like to post our picks before a race, some of us don't, it is that simple for me.

And so, like the Bible story about welcoming the stranger into our midst ("The Good Samerian"?), I would like to say "Welcome Slider", and have a good one buddy.

later,
Carl

[Citizen Kane]

Slider,

Since you saw fit to bring up the topic of HSH on this board, I'm wondering what you see as the difference between what MtKen describes as the "corporate culture" of HSH and what you have seen here? For example, would you say that Mr. Schwartz is always helpful and always cordial?

[hurrikane]

Carl, if you felt you needed to defend Slider then perhaps I sounded to harsh. If so I appologize ..that was not my intention. He seems like a sharp person and I too say welcome Slider.