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Sheets Guy
3rd February 2003, 03:52.50 PM
I’ve been a regular sheet user (and sometimes velocity handicapper) for the past 10 years. Over that period I’ve probably spent more time analyzing and quantifying patterns than almost anyone (mostly by hand inputting into a database program since the sheet providers won’t let you get at the raw data). A couple of observations on grass races that I’ve shared with Ken.

1) Grass horses rarely bounce. I’m not sure whether that’s a function of the surface or the fact that most grass races aren’t contested until the final 2 furlongs I’m not sure. What I can tell you is that grass horses will run to their best about 70% of the time assuming a clean trip (a big if). A turfer that’s coming off a really bad race is nearly as likely to run back to their best as one coming off a good one.

2) Distance considerations are much less of an issue on grass than they are on dirt. Using Thorograph or Ragozin sheets, for most horse I notice no discernible difference in ability +/- 1.5 furlongs. In other words, a horse that can get a mile is on average likely to run as well up to about 9 or 9.5 furlongs. Now of course that won’t hold in every instance, particularly for uncontrollable F’s but I think the 1.5 furlong estimate is a good rule of thumb.

3) Consequently, it makes sense to choose a paceline that represents a horse’s current best possible effort within 1.5f of today’s distance. I generally use highest S/P or F3 paceline. For high class animals that might be a race they ran 6 starts and/or a year ago. For cheaper claimers it’s probably the best they ran in the past 6 months. I think (and we’ll see if experience bares this out) that the reduced predictability of velocity handicapping on the grass has more to do with paceline selection than any other single variable.

I’m more than happy to discuss in greater detail with anyone that’s interested.


Sheet Guy

:)

Dr. Larry
3rd February 2003, 04:53.25 PM
Nice observations!

I would also add that most grass horses run well
after layoffs.

Cliff
3rd February 2003, 10:49.57 PM
Thanks for the input SG and Dr. L.

MikeDee
4th February 2003, 03:30.12 AM
Thanks for your insights guys. I like to use the PRAT resistance numbers for turf races. Not really a pattern player, but I pick contenders based on the resistance number.

I to noticed that bounce does not seem to factor into turf racing as often as dirt, but I don't have any stats, just an observation. I usually only go back 3 races, I will have take a look at going deeper to find a PL.

Will have to look closer at layoff turfers Doc, normally I just pass on these maybe one can find some nice overlays there.

Glen
4th February 2003, 07:54.43 AM
Good stuff Sheet Guy. I would add that doing manual PL based on much of what you have stated will get you some nice prices on your top 4 VEL horses, Lv1, and Fr3 rank 1 horses.

hurrikane
4th February 2003, 08:55.02 AM
interesting info. Are there any stats anywhere to validate any of this?

Glen
4th February 2003, 09:02.00 AM
HKane,

I paid KM make some adjustments for me on the tester. Here is my manual PL stats. Creating an odds line helps the ROI for sure.

A/P-1 00059 0011 19% 1.59 37% 0001 $128
A/P-2 00059 0011 19% 1.07 32% 0002 $31
A/P-3 00059 0007 12% 1.33 22% 0003 $78
A/P-4 00056 0009 16% 0.90 27% 0002 $26
Lv-1 00059 0013 22% 2.12 36% 0003 $128
Lv-2 00059 0007 12% 0.82 25% 0002 $47

hurrikane
4th February 2003, 09:07.33 AM
thanks Glen.

Sheets Guy
4th February 2003, 01:16.47 PM
Here is some data from my database (based on commerically available weight/ground adjusted final time speed figures)


Some definitions to start:

GOOD RACE: = 1 point or less from horse's current top effort (includes new tops)
BAD RACE: = 4 or morse worse than horse's current top effort


3YO Turf Horses

Last Race <= 3 pts from top Next Race = Good 81% // Next Race = Bad 6%
Last Race > 3 pts from top Next Race = Good 67% // Next Race = Bad 12%

Analysis: 3YO's are much more likely to come back to their best than not. A single bad effort is usually irrelevant in gauguing how a horse will perform today. About 25% to run better than they have ever run before (these %s INCLUDED in the 81%)



4YO Turf Horses

Last Race <= 3 pts from top Next Race = Good 75% // Next Race = Bad 7%
Last Race > 3 pts from top Next Race = Good 55% // Next Race = Bad 25%

Analysis: 4YO's can run to their best off a mediocre race but a big off effort will result in a follow-up poor race 1 in 4 times, and is much more indicative of a change in physical condition than similar bounce for a 3YO. About 15% to run better than they have ever run before.



5YO+ Turf Horses

Last Race <= 3 pts from top Next Race = Good 65% // Next Race = Bad 10%
Last Race > 3 pts from top Next Race = Good 55% // Next Race = Bad 20%

Analysis: Older turf horses are generally sound (as evidenced by the fact that they are still running at 5 and older). Notice how the middle range (2 - 3 pts from best) is largest for this age group. Since they are so sound, they won't bounce around much, but will usually cycle in and out of form within 1-3 pts from their top. As you would expect they are the group least likely to make a major improvement upon established levels (less than 10% of time)


I know that final time speed figures have their share of drawbacks, but I think pattern analysis re Turf sheet figures can still be applicable for us velocity handicappers as well.

hurrikane
4th February 2003, 02:42.51 PM
thanks sheets.

how many horses in your sample?

Sheets Guy
4th February 2003, 03:00.25 PM
Approx 1000-2000 for each age group. While I'd love to get more observations, and will continue to do so, I can see enough convergence in the %s (i.e. they don't move much when I add new data each week) that I'm confident in their accuracy. Maybe not to the percentage point but certainly directionally.

Sheets Guy

Donnie
4th February 2003, 04:07.52 PM
Very good info Sheets Guy!! Thank you for sharing.....

This time of year I start to focus on the HTR Sheets, as the developing 3 yr olds are easy pickings (IMHO). But I tend to stumble thru the rest of the year! Would like to see more of your insights...Doc Larry has shared much on here as well, and I am quietly sitting in the corner hoping you guys go on and on and on for this one!

BOL!

Donnie

tbrown
7th February 2003, 06:51.19 PM
Good stuff here - I always pay attention to "sheet players" becasue they have usually done their homework.
Thanks for sharing.